DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:03:18 -0800, Bill Tuthill wrote:

> Arguments over relative merits of DSLR vs P&S digicams
> occupy a plurality of current traffic volume on r.p.d.
>
> In many ways it reminds me of the film vs digital debate
> of the last many years.
>
> DSLR partisans seem like the defenders of film, because
> they don't have a lot of firm evidence that their workflow
> is superior, except at high ISO or some arcane usage.
>
> I know DSLRs are selling well, but do these flame wars
> indicate the beginning of the end?

IMHO - you're attempting to make a mountain out of a molehill. They are
different products filling different needs and, to a large extent,
marketed at different audiences. There is definitely room in the world for
both. I'm simply glad to have the choice.
 >> Stay informed about: DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital? 

"Bill Tuthill" <ccreekin.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:473c7bd6@news.meer.net...
> Arguments over relative merits of DSLR vs P&S digicams
> occupy a plurality of current traffic volume on r.p.d.
>
> In many ways it reminds me of the film vs digital debate
> of the last many years.
>
> DSLR partisans seem like the defenders of film, because
> they don't have a lot of firm evidence that their workflow
> is superior, except at high ISO or some arcane usage.
>
> I know DSLRs are selling well, but do these flame wars
> indicate the beginning of the end?
>
Most people are better off using a P&S. If you use a DSLR and regulary
change lens, sooner or later you will need to clean the sensor (or sensor
filter) and air/brushes won't always do the job. From the standpoint of
ease of use the P&S is the camera for most people.

However, some of us like lugging heavier cameras and lens around and love to
get out the pec-pads and eclipse to clean the sensor filter from time to
time.

Ron
 >> Stay informed about: DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital? 

Bill Tuthill wrote:
> Arguments over relative merits of DSLR vs P&S digicams
> occupy a plurality of current traffic volume on r.p.d.
>
> In many ways it reminds me of the film vs digital debate
> of the last many years.
>
> DSLR partisans seem like the defenders of film, because
> they don't have a lot of firm evidence that their workflow
> is superior, except at high ISO or some arcane usage.
>
> I know DSLRs are selling well, but do these flame wars
> indicate the beginning of the end?

All it indicates is that most people are pigheaded idiots who can never
stop long enough to take off their blinders.
 >> Stay informed about: DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital? 

Matt Ion wrote:
> Bill Tuthill wrote:
>> Arguments over relative merits of DSLR vs P&S digicams
>> occupy a plurality of current traffic volume on r.p.d.
>>
>> In many ways it reminds me of the film vs digital debate
>> of the last many years.
>>
>> DSLR partisans seem like the defenders of film, because
>> they don't have a lot of firm evidence that their workflow
>> is superior, except at high ISO or some arcane usage.
>>

P&S vs DSLR is not like film vs digital. In the final analysis
digital beats film, period, no quibble, all else being equal (i.e
not comparing an 8x10 inch film camera to an 8x10 mm P&S sensor).

The P&S/DSLR flame wars can go on forever, because the performance
properties of the two genres DO overlap, and, for equal money,
will overlap a very large amount.

Doug McDonald
 >> Stay informed about: DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital? 

Bill Tuthill <ccreekin.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Arguments over relative merits of DSLR vs P&S digicams
> occupy a plurality of current traffic volume on r.p.d.
>
> In many ways it reminds me of the film vs digital debate
> of the last many years.

Except that most of the anti-DSLR stuff seems to be by
one person with many names.

>
> DSLR partisans seem like the defenders of film, because
> they don't have a lot of firm evidence that their workflow
> is superior, except at high ISO or some arcane usage.

I have no partisanship in the matter - I still use film.

But I did feel it important to note that the claim that
getting the same DOF in macro work on a large sensor
as a small one results in greater diffraction problems
with the large sensor is wrong.

>
> I know DSLRs are selling well, but do these flame wars
> indicate the beginning of the end?

One person with many names does not actually constitute
a mass movement.

Peter.
--
pirwin.TakeThisOut@ktb.net
 >> Stay informed about: DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital? 

What flame wars? What's to discuss? For some uses and needs you use one
tool. Other times, you use another tool. What controversy?

What, exactly, do you see coming to an end? And why is the workflow an
issue?

Sorry, but this is a very odd post.

"Bill Tuthill" <ccreekin.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:473c7bd6@news.meer.net...
> Arguments over relative merits of DSLR vs P&S digicams
> occupy a plurality of current traffic volume on r.p.d.
>
> In many ways it reminds me of the film vs digital debate
> of the last many years.
>
> DSLR partisans seem like the defenders of film, because
> they don't have a lot of firm evidence that their workflow
> is superior, except at high ISO or some arcane usage.
>
> I know DSLRs are selling well, but do these flame wars
> indicate the beginning of the end?
>
 >> Stay informed about: DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital? 

Kinon O'Cann <fuged.DeleteThis@bout.it> wrote:
> What flame wars? What's to discuss? For some uses and needs you use one
> tool. Other times, you use another tool. What controversy?
> What, exactly, do you see coming to an end? And why is the workflow an
> issue? Sorry, but this is a very odd post.

It's just that the current-day DSLR is largely a relic of 35mm film.
The bodies and lenses are larger and heavier than they need to be
for the APS sensors inside (except Canon 5D, ??, and vapor Nikon D3).
Olympus created a whole new lens system, but it is not significantly
smaller than 35mm-based DSLRs, and Pentax makes a 35mm-compatible DSLR
that is smaller and lighter than any Olympus.

The recommended DSLR workflow seems like a huge chore, not a fun hobby,
with RAW mode and the continual treadmill of Adobe software upgrades.

So I'm wondering if the DSLR is a dead-end. In field use, I don't see
any significant advantage in pictures produced by friends with a DSLR,
versus friends with a pocket-size digicam.
 >> Stay informed about: DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital? 

Doug McDonald wrote:
> Matt Ion wrote:
>> Bill Tuthill wrote:
>>> Arguments over relative merits of DSLR vs P&S digicams
>>> occupy a plurality of current traffic volume on r.p.d.
>>>
>>> In many ways it reminds me of the film vs digital debate
>>> of the last many years.
>>>
>>> DSLR partisans seem like the defenders of film, because
>>> they don't have a lot of firm evidence that their workflow
>>> is superior, except at high ISO or some arcane usage.
>>>
>
> P&S vs DSLR is not like film vs digital. In the final analysis
> digital beats film, period, no quibble, all else being equal (i.e
> not comparing an 8x10 inch film camera to an 8x10 mm P&S sensor).
>
> The P&S/DSLR flame wars can go on forever, because the performance
> properties of the two genres DO overlap, and, for equal money,
> will overlap a very large amount.

It's a ridiculous argument anyway. Cameras are nothing more than tools,
and both "styles" (and everything in between) have their own place in
the market. I love the flexibility I get with an SLR (digital or
otherwise), but there are times I just find it too bulky and wish I had
a good pocket camera.

It's like arguing over whether a compact car is better than a dump
truck... well... what are you planning to do with it? You can't haul
five tons of gravel with a Mini, but just try parallel-parking a Mack
truck downtown...
 >> Stay informed about: DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital? 

Bill Tuthill wrote:
> Arguments over relative merits of DSLR vs P&S digicams
> occupy a plurality of current traffic volume on r.p.d.
>
> In many ways it reminds me of the film vs digital debate
> of the last many years.
>
> DSLR partisans seem like the defenders of film, because
> they don't have a lot of firm evidence that their workflow
> is superior, except at high ISO or some arcane usage.

LOL, high ISO is "arcane usage?"

It's not even about D-SLR versus P&S, it's really about large sensor
versus small sensor, and virtually no shutter lag versus long shutter lag.

If you asked most people why they bought a D-SLR the answer would not be
related to being able to change lenses, it would be about shutter lag
and image quality in low light.

I'm sure that nearly every D-SLR user is also a digital P&S user. The
P&S is less burdensome to carry around, but the image quality often
leaves a lot to be desired.
 >> Stay informed about: DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital? 

"Bill Tuthill" <ccreekin DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:473c7bd6@news.meer.net...
> Arguments over relative merits of DSLR vs P&S digicams
> occupy a plurality of current traffic volume on r.p.d.
>
> In many ways it reminds me of the film vs digital debate
> of the last many years.
>
> DSLR partisans seem like the defenders of film, because
> they don't have a lot of firm evidence that their workflow
> is superior, except at high ISO or some arcane usage.
>
> I know DSLRs are selling well, but do these flame wars
> indicate the beginning of the end?
>

Nah, they just indicate that P&S users are insecure. If users of P&S users
are so happy with the results, why the barbs constantly directed at DSLR
user? I own & use both, by the way and I'm of the opinion the end result
has more to do with the person behind the camera, and both types of cameras
have their own particular strengths & weaknesses. Might as well start a
Ford vs. Chevy thread, that's how pointless I think the debate is. There's
no one camera that's perfect for every situation.

Mark
 >> Stay informed about: DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital? 

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:03:18 -0800, Bill Tuthill wrote:

> Arguments over relative merits of DSLR vs P&S digicams occupy a
> plurality of current traffic volume on r.p.d.
>
> In many ways it reminds me of the film vs digital debate of the last
> many years.
>
> DSLR partisans seem like the defenders of film, because they don't have
> a lot of firm evidence that their workflow is superior, except at high
> ISO or some arcane usage.
>
> I know DSLRs are selling well, but do these flame wars indicate the
> beginning of the end?

Actually Bill... It's all a game. I post a picture and the trolls lift
their heads from slumber and generate traffic to low volume news groups.
This way it makes it easy to seperate the chaff from the hay, so to speak.

Douglas

--
If you don't defend your rights... You end up without any!
 >> Stay informed about: DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital? 

Douglas wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:03:18 -0800, Bill Tuthill wrote:
>
>> Arguments over relative merits of DSLR vs P&S digicams occupy a
>> plurality of current traffic volume on r.p.d.
>>
>> In many ways it reminds me of the film vs digital debate of the last
>> many years.
>>
>> DSLR partisans seem like the defenders of film, because they don't have
>> a lot of firm evidence that their workflow is superior, except at high
>> ISO or some arcane usage.
>>
>> I know DSLRs are selling well, but do these flame wars indicate the
>> beginning of the end?
>
> Actually Bill... It's all a game. I post a picture and the trolls lift
> their heads from slumber and generate traffic to low volume news groups.
> This way it makes it easy to seperate the chaff from the hay, so to speak.
>

I think you need to look up what a troll is, in short you is it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

But it is really good to know that you intentionally are posting
nonsense, otherwise I would be worried about you.

That would explain why in the past you have said things like this

"It's all over red rover. The digitals are simply not good enough for my
work. This post is not about "is digital better or worse" it's about a
decision I've been contemplating for some time. Maybe Australian sunlight
and 40C daytime temperatures with Queensland's 27/7 humidity over 80% might
affect the sensors and the results, maybe not. What I do know is my most
popular posters are all shot on film. "

This from the post "Return to film... True
D-Mac as random user 12987, Jan 26, 2006.
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.equipment.35mm/browse_frm/thread/9f76352355983b69>

But then less then one month later you have this to say

"http://www.photosbydouglas.com/canvas/images/tanga_00502040003.jpg is a
10D
image I enlarged with Genuine Fractals 3.0. It is 24" x 36" and about 2
years old. The print image is well over 100 megabytes in size and highly
detailed. This picture is as clear and sharp as a Cibachrome (Illfochrome)
print made from a 6x7 cm transparency. "

You seem to be saying that your 10D was as good as a 6x7 camera, but

D-Mac as Tropical Treat, Feb 24, 2006
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/browse_frm/thread/56cba655ae971d75/394f13a7f33703b1>

I am glad to hear that you have simply been trolling the new group all
this time. So for future reference we can pretty much dismiss any posts
you simply saying dumb things in an attempt to stir things up.

Scott
 >> Stay informed about: DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital? 

>
> It's a ridiculous argument anyway. Cameras are nothing more than tools,
> and both "styles" (and everything in between) have their own place in the
> market. I love the flexibility I get with an SLR (digital or otherwise),
> but there are times I just find it too bulky and wish I had a good pocket
> camera.
>

Me too. But I've been spoiled by the speed of the DSLR and the quality of
the stuff from the it. I look at the output from the Canon G5 and it's good,
but the focus lag is too much too bear. When I read of a compact that has
the speed of a DSLR I may well get the wallet out.

And when I can get a waist level finder (pivoting screen) on a (Canon
because I have the lenses) DSLR, I will also get the wallet out.

We are the lucky generation, we have a terrific choice of excellent gear.

I'm off back to my computer made panoramas.

John
 >> Stay informed about: DSLR vs P&S a replay of Film vs Digital?