rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in K..

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:13:53 -0800 (PST), "fgnievinski@terra.com.br"
wrote:

>Hi.
>
>Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
>camera, please?
>It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
>It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
>expensive.
>
>I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
>and cheaper.
>
>Thanks,
>Felipe.


I use AA NiMH batteries in my Z712. They work fine, but I would not
use them as a primary power source. Get a KLIC-8000 or one of the less
expensive imitations and save the AAs for those days when you are
shooting a lot of photos. On a recent trip to Disney World, the
KLIC-8000 copy I used lasted for at least half the day. I then went
through 4 pairs of AA cells during the rest of the day.

If you already own some AA batteries, use them. But don't spend money
on them instead of buying a Li-Ion battery.
 >> Stay informed about: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in K.. 

Thanks a lot for the info guys, especially Raoul and Ted. I'm going to
use the NiMH AA I already have while I look for a cheaper KLIC-8000
imitation -- perhaps on boxing day.

Just for the record, this is the official response from Kodak. It's a
pitty that such otherwise respected company throws in what seems pure
FUD tactic:
> No, you may not use any "rechargeable AA NiMH
> batteries" with your camera since this is not a
> recommended battery type. You may only use the
> Kodak Lithium Digital Camera Battery CRV3 and the
> Kodak Li-Ion Rechargeable Digital Camera Battery
> KLIC-8000.
>> the manual says the Z712 can take AA lithium
>> batteries. Can I use rechargable AA NiMH batteries
>> in my z712? Even if they last less than the lithium
>> batteries, at least they are rechargable.

Felipe.
 >> Stay informed about: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in K.. 

fgnievinski DeleteThis @terra.com.br wrote:
> Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
> camera, please?
> It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
> It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
> expensive.
>
> I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
> and cheaper.

I do not know that camera but I have used and am using NiMH AA cells in
a Kodak, a Fuji and now a Canon digital camera as well as my GPS and AAA
cells in several LED flashlights with no problems.

Note that several companies including Sanyo and Maaha are selling the
new low self discharge cells. A rather informative vendor is
http://thomasdistributing.com/

Ted
 >> Stay informed about: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in K.. 

fgnievinski RemoveThis @terra.com.br wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
> camera, please?
> It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
> It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
> expensive.
>
> I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
> and cheaper.
>
> Thanks,
> Felipe.

The lithium AA cells provide about 3.5 volts if fully charged. Two NiMh
batteries only provide 2.4 volts. This might, or might not, be
sufficient. You might try consulting Kodak directly.
 >> Stay informed about: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in K.. 

fgnievinski.DeleteThis@terra.com.br wrote:
> On Dec 21, 2:08 pm, Ted Edwards wrote:
>> fgnievin....DeleteThis@terra.com.br wrote:
>>> Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
>>> camera, please?
>>> It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
>>> It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
>>> expensive.
>>> I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
>>> and cheaper.
>> I do not know that camera but I have used and am using NiMH AA cells in
>> a Kodak, a Fuji and now a Canon digital camera as well as my GPS and AAA
>> cells in several LED flashlights with no problems.
>>
> I assume that lithium is the recommended battery type for the devices
> you mention, and that you tried NiMH is spite of that recommendation,
> right?
> Kodak states that only lithium batteries can be used in my camera. I
> wonder if I could damage the camera trying NiMH on it.
>
> Thanks,
> Felipe.

Probably not, but it might just refuse to function on the lower voltage.
 >> Stay informed about: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in K.. 

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:13:53 -0800 (PST), "fgnievinski@terra.com.br"
wrote:

>Hi.
>
>Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
>camera, please?
>It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
>It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
>expensive.
>
>I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
>and cheaper.
>
>Thanks,
>Felipe.

NIMH compared to Lithium

The problem is that the cameras low voltage indicator and shut
down are designed for the higher voltage lithium's that pretty much
maintain a higher voltage until the are mostly depleted.

The NIMH battery starts at a lower voltage. That lower voltage should
be the low voltage warning for the lithium's. If you do use the NIMH
they would have to be freshly charged so that they would be above
the 1.25 nominal voltage. The best you could expect is to see is the
low voltage indicator come on soon and the camera shut down before the
capacity of the NIMH battery is depleted.

Other Kodak cameras would have a switch so that the calibration
of the voltage sensor/shutdown could be selected between
Alkaline,Lithium / NIMH
 >> Stay informed about: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in K.. 

fgnievinski DeleteThis @terra.com.br wrote:
> I assume that lithium is the recommended battery type for the devices
> you mention, and that you tried NiMH is spite of that recommendation,
> right?

Non rechargeable Lithium cells are recommended for my GPS for longer run
times and better performance at low temperatures. Canon recommend _not_
to use ordinary Alkalines.

Some recommend Li, some don't

> Kodak states that only lithium batteries can be used in my camera. I
> wonder if I could damage the camera trying NiMH on it.

I would be truly amazed if NiMH caused a problem. Kodak (and most other
digital camera manufacturers) recommend against using Alkaline batteries
because they do not do well when discharged for short times at high
currents. NiMH cells do not have that problem.

If it were me, I would try them.

Ted
 >> Stay informed about: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in K.. 

You are wasting money if you are not using rechargeable batteries. Try to
buy one with the highest power number shown in mAh (0.001 Ampere/hour).
Check eBay. AA batteries are these days at 2700 mAh and they last very long.
Buy two sets; one in camera and the other set in bag to use when needed.
Charge them only when necessary. Battery usually will not take more than
1000 charges per their life. They should last about 3 years when charges
every 3rd day. It will be significantly less when you plug it in every
occasion like phone or PDA into charger.
I have many cameras and I never ever used non-rechargeable batteries. I have
over 22,000 pictures in my albums.
Jan
wrote in message

> Hi.
>
> Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
> camera, please?
> It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
> It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
> expensive.
>
> I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
> and cheaper.
>
> Thanks,
> Felipe.
 >> Stay informed about: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in K.. 

fgnievinski DeleteThis @terra.com.br wrote:
> Thanks a lot for the info guys, especially Raoul and Ted. I'm going to
> use the NiMH AA I already have while I look for a cheaper KLIC-8000
> imitation -- perhaps on boxing day.
>
> Just for the record, this is the official response from Kodak. It's a
> pitty that such otherwise respected company throws in what seems pure
> FUD tactic:
>> No, you may not use any "rechargeable AA NiMH
>> batteries" with your camera since this is not a
>> recommended battery type. You may only use the
>> Kodak Lithium Digital Camera Battery CRV3 and the
>> Kodak Li-Ion Rechargeable Digital Camera Battery
>> KLIC-8000.
>>> the manual says the Z712 can take AA lithium
>>> batteries. Can I use rechargable AA NiMH batteries
>>> in my z712? Even if they last less than the lithium
>>> batteries, at least they are rechargable.
>
> Felipe.

Generally a company recommends the batteries that will give the best
functional characteristics for the camera, to avoid problems. Let us
know how your experiment goes. I rather suspect that a fully charged
NiMH battery set will give almost immediate 'low battery' indications.
 >> Stay informed about: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in K.. 

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:13:53 -0800, fgnievinski.DeleteThis@terra.com.br wrote:

> Hi.
>
> Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
> camera, please?
> It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
> It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
> expensive.
>
> I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
> and cheaper.
>
> Thanks,
> Felipe.

You may get some useful information from batterdata.com.
 >> Stay informed about: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in K.. 

On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:13:53 -0800 (PST)
"fgnievinski@terra.com.br" wrote:

> Hi.
>
> Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
> camera, please?
> It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
> It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
> expensive.
>
> I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
> and cheaper.

The KLIC-8000 is a rechargeable Li-ion battery. A casual search found
copies going for between $10 and $40. NiMH batteries will probably
work, but their lower nominal voltage might fool the camera into
thinking they're depleted early.

This is a no-brainer. Get a couple KLIC-8000 knock-offs and a charger,
and be happy.

Paul Allen
 >> Stay informed about: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in K.. 

On Dec 22, 6:22 pm, Paul Allen
wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:13:53 -0800 (PST)
>
> "fgnievin...@terra.com.br" wrote:
> > Hi.
>
> > Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
> > camera, please?
> > It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
> > It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
> > expensive.
>
> > I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
> > and cheaper.
>
> The KLIC-8000 is a rechargeable Li-ion battery. A casual search found
> copies going for between $10 and $40. NiMH batteries will probably
> work, but their lower nominal voltage might fool the camera into
> thinking they're depleted early.
>
> This is a no-brainer. Get a couple KLIC-8000 knock-offs and a charger,
> and be happy.
>
That will raise the price of an usable camera by 30%!!!
I paid $179.99+8.5%=$195.29 for the Z712; a cheap charger+4 AA NiMH
costs $20; that comes to a total of $215.29.
Now if you go the Kodak way, you get one KLIC-8000 battery for $40
plus another $40 for a charger; total of $275.29.
Bear that in mind, potential buyers!

Felipe.
 >> Stay informed about: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in K.. 

Ron Hunter wrote:
> Generally a company recommends the batteries that will give the best
> functional characteristics for the camera, to avoid problems. Let us
> know how your experiment goes. I rather suspect that a fully charged
> NiMH battery set will give almost immediate 'low battery' indications.

Only if Kodak are willing to go so far as to try to force their
customers to buy their overpriced Lithium batteries. From their web
site, they want $6.99 for CRV3 whereas Thomas Distributing want $9.87
for _four_ MAHA low self discharge AA NiMH cells that will last for
several hundred charge/discharge cycles. Of course you will have to buy
a charger. A particularly cost effective one is the MAHA MH-C401FS for
$39.97 from Thomas Distributing. Note that there are higher Amp-hour
capacity cells but the low self discharge types are reputed to have a
lower internal resistance. This is a Good Thing.
<
http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=122_104_106&...ducts_i
>

If you want to see the discharge curve for Kodak's CRV3, go to the
bottom right hand corner of
<
http://www.kodak.com/eknec/documents/fd/0900688a8019d7fd/KCRV3.pdf
>
An excellent comparison between alkaline and NiMH is at
< http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/1.5_vs_1.2_Volt_Batteries.pdf >
He thoroughly debunks the lower voltage myth.

Ted
 >> Stay informed about: rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in K..