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eugene

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Since: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 23



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:55 am
Post subject: b/w printer?
Archived from groups: rec>photo>digital (more info?)

Is there such a product, does anybody know? I was on here a couple of weeks
ago and I said about my elderly Parish Priest who has been a keen
photographer all his life. He is now trying to print from his huge
collection of old negatives but the ink is costing him a fortune.
Apparently, his Epson printer uses colour ink to print out in black and
white and it uses eight different cartridges which to me is just over the
top! Ideally, he would like a printer that only prints black. Anybody able
to offer suggestions? Thanks

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tomm42

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Since: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 60



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:55 am
Post subject: Re: b/w printer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On May 7, 6:10 am, "eugene" <eug....TakeThisOut@home.com.invalid> wrote:
> Is there such a product, does anybody know? I was on here a couple of weeks
> ago and I said about my elderly Parish Priest who has been a keen
> photographer all his life. He is now trying to print from his huge
> collection of old negatives but the ink is costing him a fortune.
> Apparently, his Epson printer uses colour ink to print out in black and
> white and it uses eight different cartridges which to me is just over the
> top! Ideally, he would like a printer that only prints black. Anybody able
> to offer suggestions? Thanks


To get good b&W the printer designer have found they need more than
just a single B&W cartidge. I have been printing inkjet 6 years 4 of
that commercially, with a 6 ink printer getting good B&W was a chore,
a lot of work. Set the printer to B&W, with just the black cart and
your couldn't get midtones, use the color inks and there was always a
tonal shift but good range, I did a lot of sepia photos. There is also
a similar problems with printing B&W with color photo paper. So the
inkjet printer manufacturers put in 8 inks including midtone blacks
which greatly enhance B&W inkjet printing.
The best way to lower ink costs is to buy a printer that has larger
ink reservoirs. Right now the HP B9180 has the largest ink reservoird
of any under $1000 printer, in the US you can get this printer in the
mid $500 range. You are not paying any less for carts you just get
more ink. Many letter (A4) sized printers have under 10ml in tanks
that last for just a few prints. Looking for a small printer a few
months ago was appalled that some have as little as 3ml ink
reservoirs. I end up with the B9180, not small by any streatch of
imagination, but its 27ml ink tanks cast about the same as the 6ml
carts from another smaller HP printer. B&W is great from the B9180,
that I have at work, as it is from the Canon iPF5000 I have at home.
As for B&W printers MIS www.inksupply.com makes ink sets for printers
to convert them to B&W only, there are other sales groups that have
that conversion too. The interesting set is for the Epson C series
(C82-C88) which are 4 ink printers, which is all you need for B&W. So
you have a cheap printer, and a not so cheap ink set, but it only does
B&W.

Tom

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Pete D

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Since: Sep 14, 2005
Posts: 723



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:55 am
Post subject: Re: b/w printer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I have a Canon 5200R and it does B&W quite well using normal black as well
as photo black, the new Canon IP 5300 is probably even better. I do use only
original inks and Ilford textured paper for the best possible result.

"eugene" <eugene.TakeThisOut@home.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:_pmdnaRdo5xgZ6PbnZ2dnUVZ8sqjnZ2d@bt.com...
> Is there such a product, does anybody know? I was on here a couple of
> weeks ago and I said about my elderly Parish Priest who has been a keen
> photographer all his life. He is now trying to print from his huge
> collection of old negatives but the ink is costing him a fortune.
> Apparently, his Epson printer uses colour ink to print out in black and
> white and it uses eight different cartridges which to me is just over the
> top! Ideally, he would like a printer that only prints black. Anybody able
> to offer suggestions? Thanks
>
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ray

External


Since: May 05, 2007
Posts: 2



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:55 am
Post subject: Re: b/w printer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 7 May 2007 21:22:27 +1000, "Pete D" <no.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote:

>I have a Canon 5200R and it does B&W quite well using normal black as well
>as photo black, the new Canon IP 5300 is probably even better. I do use only
>original inks and Ilford textured paper for the best possible result.
>

As far as I know Canon IP printers use color cartridges for gray that
is less than 80% (at least the ones that I own). Do laser printers do
a decent job of printing photos?
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user

External


Since: Mar 30, 2007
Posts: 58



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:24 am
Post subject: Re: b/w printer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"eugene" <eugene.RemoveThis@home.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:_pmdnaRdo5xgZ6PbnZ2dnUVZ8sqjnZ2d@bt.com...
> Is there such a product, does anybody know? I was on here a couple of
> weeks ago and I said about my elderly Parish Priest who has been a keen
> photographer all his life. He is now trying to print from his huge
> collection of old negatives but the ink is costing him a fortune.
> Apparently, his Epson printer uses colour ink to print out in black and
> white and it uses eight different cartridges which to me is just over the
> top! Ideally, he would like a printer that only prints black. Anybody able
> to offer suggestions? Thanks
>

There are no consumer inkjet printers that do only black and white (6
cartridges each with a different shade of black). However, there are some
like the higher end Epson's that offer Black, Light Black and Light Light
Black. One of these would be your best bet.

I wish someone like HP or Epson would put out a 6 cartridge black and white
printer with 6 shades of black.

=(Cool
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ray

External


Since: Dec 07, 2006
Posts: 820



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:39 am
Post subject: Re: b/w printer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Mon, 07 May 2007 11:10:02 +0100, eugene wrote:

> Is there such a product, does anybody know? I was on here a couple of weeks
> ago and I said about my elderly Parish Priest who has been a keen
> photographer all his life. He is now trying to print from his huge
> collection of old negatives but the ink is costing him a fortune.
> Apparently, his Epson printer uses colour ink to print out in black and
> white and it uses eight different cartridges which to me is just over the
> top! Ideally, he would like a printer that only prints black. Anybody able
> to offer suggestions? Thanks

laser.
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Ron Recer

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Since: Sep 18, 2005
Posts: 33



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:42 am
Post subject: Re: b/w printer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"eugene" <eugene.DeleteThis@home.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:_pmdnaRdo5xgZ6PbnZ2dnUVZ8sqjnZ2d@bt.com...
> Is there such a product, does anybody know? I was on here a couple of
> weeks ago and I said about my elderly Parish Priest who has been a keen
> photographer all his life. He is now trying to print from his huge
> collection of old negatives but the ink is costing him a fortune.
> Apparently, his Epson printer uses colour ink to print out in black and
> white and it uses eight different cartridges which to me is just over the
> top! Ideally, he would like a printer that only prints black. Anybody able
> to offer suggestions? Thanks
The HP 8400 series printers use a cartridge that has two shades of grey
plus black for B&W prints. I think that series is out of production, but
they probably have a newer series that does the same thing. Whatever you
use the ink probably isn't going to be cheap unless you use 3rd party ink.

Ron
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John A. Crabtree

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Since: Mar 21, 2007
Posts: 7



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 11:56 am
Post subject: Re: b/w printer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"eugene" <eugene.RemoveThis@home.com.invalid> wrote in
news:_pmdnaRdo5xgZ6PbnZ2dnUVZ8sqjnZ2d@bt.com:

> Is there such a product, does anybody know? I was on here a couple of
> weeks ago and I said about my elderly Parish Priest who has been a
> keen photographer all his life. He is now trying to print from his
> huge collection of old negatives but the ink is costing him a fortune.
> Apparently, his Epson printer uses colour ink to print out in black
> and white and it uses eight different cartridges which to me is just
> over the top! Ideally, he would like a printer that only prints black.
> Anybody able to offer suggestions? Thanks
>
>

You need a printer specifically designed for photoprinting. Not an inkjet.
I have an HP Photosmart, great piece of hardware, but HP software is not so
great. There are plenty of good photoprinters to choose from. This
particular printer allows you to install either a b/w or color cartridge
depending on the type of photo you are printing.
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eugene

External


Since: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 23



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:56 pm
Post subject: Re: b/w printer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Ron Recer" <ron48.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:5a8vo1F2nrve3U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "eugene" <eugene.RemoveThis@home.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:_pmdnaRdo5xgZ6PbnZ2dnUVZ8sqjnZ2d@bt.com...
>> Is there such a product, does anybody know? I was on here a couple of
>> weeks ago and I said about my elderly Parish Priest who has been a keen
>> photographer all his life. He is now trying to print from his huge
>> collection of old negatives but the ink is costing him a fortune.
>> Apparently, his Epson printer uses colour ink to print out in black and
>> white and it uses eight different cartridges which to me is just over the
>> top! Ideally, he would like a printer that only prints black. Anybody
>> able to offer suggestions? Thanks
> The HP 8400 series printers use a cartridge that has two shades of grey
> plus black for B&W prints. I think that series is out of production, but
> they probably have a newer series that does the same thing. Whatever you
> use the ink probably isn't going to be cheap unless you use 3rd party ink.
>
> Ron
>

thanks everybody, lots of good information there for me to pass on.
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John McWilliams

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Since: Aug 25, 2005
Posts: 1476



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: b/w printer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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=(Cool wrote:
> "eugene" <eugene.TakeThisOut@home.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:_pmdnaRdo5xgZ6PbnZ2dnUVZ8sqjnZ2d@bt.com...
>> Is there such a product, does anybody know? I was on here a couple of
>> weeks ago and I said about my elderly Parish Priest who has been a
>> keen photographer all his life. He is now trying to print from his
>> huge collection of old negatives but the ink is costing him a fortune.
>> Apparently, his Epson printer uses colour ink to print out in black
>> and white and it uses eight different cartridges which to me is just
>> over the top! Ideally, he would like a printer that only prints black.
>> Anybody able to offer suggestions? Thanks
>>
>
> There are no consumer inkjet printers that do only black and white (6
> cartridges each with a different shade of black). However, there are
> some like the higher end Epson's that offer Black, Light Black and Light
> Light Black. One of these would be your best bet.
>
> I wish someone like HP or Epson would put out a 6 cartridge black and
> white printer with 6 shades of black.

I've been tempted from time to time to try the six shades of grey
conversion of a printer, such as talked about here:

http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/UT_Inks_Intro.htm

--
john mcwilliams
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user

External


Since: Mar 30, 2007
Posts: 58



(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:44 am
Post subject: Re: b/w printer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"John McWilliams" <jpmcw.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:teCdnREMNqd2IaLbnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@comcast.com...
> =(Cool wrote:
>> "eugene" <eugene.DeleteThis@home.com.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:_pmdnaRdo5xgZ6PbnZ2dnUVZ8sqjnZ2d@bt.com...
>>> Is there such a product, does anybody know? I was on here a couple of
>>> weeks ago and I said about my elderly Parish Priest who has been a keen
>>> photographer all his life. He is now trying to print from his huge
>>> collection of old negatives but the ink is costing him a fortune.
>>> Apparently, his Epson printer uses colour ink to print out in black and
>>> white and it uses eight different cartridges which to me is just over
>>> the top! Ideally, he would like a printer that only prints black.
>>> Anybody able to offer suggestions? Thanks
>>>
>>
>> There are no consumer inkjet printers that do only black and white (6
>> cartridges each with a different shade of black). However, there are some
>> like the higher end Epson's that offer Black, Light Black and Light Light
>> Black. One of these would be your best bet.
>>
>> I wish someone like HP or Epson would put out a 6 cartridge black and
>> white printer with 6 shades of black.
>
> I've been tempted from time to time to try the six shades of grey
> conversion of a printer, such as talked about here:
>
> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/UT_Inks_Intro.htm
>
> --
> john mcwilliams
>

I have looked at that as feel. However, I have three concerns.

1) It is third party with questionable ink quality.
2) Without drivers for the printer designed for that I doubt seriously you
would be top notch results. This is something that needs to be done at the
printer manufacturer level and not as an ad hock attempt by a third party.
3) One has to wonder if special papers with special formulations would be
needed to get the best in black and white.

I wish a printer company would try doing a printer from the group up that
did black and white. I think they might be surprised that how well it would
sell. Even one that did up to 8x10 with a decent price.

=(Cool
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John McWilliams

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Since: Aug 25, 2005
Posts: 1476



(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:18 pm
Post subject: Re: b/w printer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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=(Cool wrote:
> "John McWilliams" <jpmcw RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:teCdnREMNqd2IaLbnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> =(Cool wrote:

>>> I wish someone like HP or Epson would put out a 6 cartridge black and
>>> white printer with 6 shades of black.
>>
>> I've been tempted from time to time to try the six shades of grey
>> conversion of a printer, such as talked about here:
>>
>> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/UT_Inks_Intro.htm
>>

> I have looked at that as feel. However, I have three concerns.
>
> 1) It is third party with questionable ink quality.
> 2) Without drivers for the printer designed for that I doubt seriously
> you would be top notch results. This is something that needs to be done
> at the printer manufacturer level and not as an ad hock attempt by a
> third party.
> 3) One has to wonder if special papers with special formulations would
> be needed to get the best in black and white.
>
> I wish a printer company would try doing a printer from the group up
> that did black and white. I think they might be surprised that how well
> it would sell. Even one that did up to 8x10 with a decent price.

Well put. Maybe that's why I've not moved on this, and thanks for
verbalizing what the real questions are.

I agree with all, but question whether different drivers were needed. I
assumed a profile was all that was needed.... ?

--
John McWilliams
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user

External


Since: Mar 30, 2007
Posts: 58



(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:03 am
Post subject: Re: b/w printer? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"John McWilliams" <jpmcw.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:iJednaFyHqRSUd3bnZ2dnUVZ_rqhnZ2d@comcast.com...
> =(Cool wrote:
>> "John McWilliams" <jpmcw.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:teCdnREMNqd2IaLbnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>> =(Cool wrote:
>
>>>> I wish someone like HP or Epson would put out a 6 cartridge black and
>>>> white printer with 6 shades of black.
>>>
>>> I've been tempted from time to time to try the six shades of grey
>>> conversion of a printer, such as talked about here:
>>>
>>> http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/UT_Inks_Intro.htm
>>>
>
>> I have looked at that as feel. However, I have three concerns.
>>
>> 1) It is third party with questionable ink quality.
>> 2) Without drivers for the printer designed for that I doubt seriously
>> you would be top notch results. This is something that needs to be done
>> at the printer manufacturer level and not as an ad hock attempt by a
>> third party.
>> 3) One has to wonder if special papers with special formulations would be
>> needed to get the best in black and white.
>>
>> I wish a printer company would try doing a printer from the group up that
>> did black and white. I think they might be surprised that how well it
>> would sell. Even one that did up to 8x10 with a decent price.
>
> Well put. Maybe that's why I've not moved on this, and thanks for
> verbalizing what the real questions are.
>
> I agree with all, but question whether different drivers were needed. I
> assumed a profile was all that was needed.... ?
>
> --
> John McWilliams


No I think it would have to be a driver that knew how to take color RGB
data, convert it to black and white and grays and do it right. The drivers
we have today are designed to convert the color image data to the color
image data the printer needs for the inks it has. This is also why many
color inkjet printers do such a poor job they use the colors along with the
black and light blacks, etc. create the shades of gray that the printer
doesn't have in real ink. All of this "fakery" I don't think would produce
good black and white prints on a 6 gray shade inkjet printer. So I think it
would be a lot more than just profiles. At least if you want it to do more
than just convert the image to 256 shades of gray like using Photoshop's
convert to grayscale option (not a good choice at all).

=(Cool
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