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Best software for increasing resolution?

 
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Martin Brown

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Since: Aug 09, 2005
Posts: 113



(Msg. 16) Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>photo>digital (more info?)

On Oct 23, 3:39 am, IggyZiggy <bloc....RemoveThis@spamfree.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:49:42 GMT, "SS" <xsx20....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >I have seen that Genuine Fractals and Photozoom seem to be 'intelligent'
> >software but have also seen a review that puts the fred Miranda 'stair
> >interpolation' Photoshop action better than these. I wonder what
> >experiences/advice the subscribers to this newsgroup can give. Is there
> >anything even better on the market now.
>
> >Thanks
>
> Any of the methods that are using PhotoShop's native bicubic interpolation and
> its 16-bit math foundation (like Miranda's stair interpolation or that
> Richardson-Lucy iteration) will be abysmal compared to other more evolved
> interpolation methods. PhotoShop is still only using 16-bit math (think Windows
> 3.1), it has to throw away so much data required for the detail. If you are
> using 16-bit images you're already at the limit of PhotoShop's math-bandwidth.

It might surprise you to know that many of the modern scientific
deconvolution codes had their roots in PDP-11 with FPS-120 arithmetic
array processors strapped on the side. Images were usually held as
16bit data because almost no techniques could originate source data
with that dynamic range (and disk space was scarce).

> Trying to do anything complex with 16-bit data in a 16-bit math environment is
> pushing it beyond what it was designed for and inherently limited to. No

Great care is needed to avoid overflows, and the main calculations are
done in floating point, but there is nothing inherently wrong with
16bit source data for storing images. Very few imaging systems use all
16 bits.

> There's no one-size-fits-all solution when it comes to upsampling.

That at least is a true statement. You have to decide what you mean by
"best" before the question is answerable.

Do you want a plausible pretty looking image?
or
An image which shows the highest resolution detail and optimised
signal to noise consistent with the measurement process? (the latter
can be important in forensic work, but is almost never pretty to look
at)

Regards,
Martin Brown

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IggyZiggy

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Since: Oct 23, 2007
Posts: 6



(Msg. 17) Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:07:39 -0700, John McWilliams <jpmcw RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:

>IggyZiggy wrote:
>
>> The extra detail created in PhotoZoom looks about as real as anything I've ever
>> seen before.
>
>Yes, software that creates extra detail is indeed 'real'.
>
>Snorfle.

Would it have helped to prevent you from revealing your immaturity and stupidity
with your "snorfle" if I had said "real looking" instead of just "real"? The
same is implied when stated either way, IF you could understand simple syntax of
the english language. Hint: "looks about as real as" = "real looking" = "not
really real, but looks as if it could be real." Do you need everyone to explain
such simple things to you all the time? Don't bother answering, I already know
the answer to that is "yes". They get dumber and dumber all the time online. I
knew they did something wrong by making computers "user friendly", then every
idiot in the world could log onto the internet. The reply from J. McWilliams is
all the proof of that that you'll ever need.

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John McWilliams

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Since: Aug 25, 2005
Posts: 1476



(Msg. 18) Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

IggyZiggy wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:07:39 -0700, John McWilliams <jpmcw.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> IggyZiggy wrote:
>>
>>> The extra detail created in PhotoZoom looks about as real as anything I've ever
>>> seen before.
>> Yes, software that creates extra detail is indeed 'real'.
>>
>> Snorfle.
>
> Would it have helped to prevent you from revealing your immaturity and stupidity
> with your "snorfle" if I had said "real looking" instead of just "real"?

No. Look at what you wrote: You said "extra detail created." A more
ignorant assertion has been made on usenet, but that was months ago. And
this *is* usenet, not the internet.

--
lsmft
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IggyZiggy

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Since: Oct 23, 2007
Posts: 6



(Msg. 19) Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:59:57 -0700, John McWilliams <jpmcw.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:

>IggyZiggy wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:07:39 -0700, John McWilliams <jpmcw.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> IggyZiggy wrote:
>>>
>>>> The extra detail created in PhotoZoom looks about as real as anything I've ever
>>>> seen before.
>>> Yes, software that creates extra detail is indeed 'real'.
>>>
>>> Snorfle.
>>
>> Would it have helped to prevent you from revealing your immaturity and stupidity
>> with your "snorfle" if I had said "real looking" instead of just "real"?
>
>No. Look at what you wrote: You said "extra detail created." A more
>ignorant assertion has been made on usenet, but that was months ago. And
>this *is* usenet, not the internet.

I just scanned over some of the other "helpful" photography advice that you hand
out. None of it even remotely related to photography. Welcome to the ever
growing troll-filter.

Troll-Filter? Meet John McWilliams. John McWilliams? Meet Troll-Filter. You two
have a lot in common. Go ahead and discuss your "important" and helpful on-topic
issues with each other. I'm sure you'll be at it for a very long time.

PLONK
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SS

External


Since: Nov 22, 2005
Posts: 53



(Msg. 20) Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"IggyZiggy" <blocker.RemoveThis@spamfree.com> wrote in message
news:po3sh3lv4220fbbnihi7gok7n9500f9t12@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:07:39 -0700, John McWilliams <jpmcw.RemoveThis@comcast.net>
wrote:
>
> >IggyZiggy wrote:
> >
> >> The extra detail created in PhotoZoom looks about as real as anything
I've ever
> >> seen before.
> >
> >Yes, software that creates extra detail is indeed 'real'.
> >
> >Snorfle.
>
> Would it have helped to prevent you from revealing your immaturity and
stupidity
> with your "snorfle" if I had said "real looking" instead of just "real"?
The
> same is implied when stated either way, IF you could understand simple
syntax of
> the english language. Hint: "looks about as real as" = "real looking" =
"not
> really real, but looks as if it could be real." Do you need everyone to
explain
> such simple things to you all the time? Don't bother answering, I already
know
> the answer to that is "yes". They get dumber and dumber all the time
online. I
> knew they did something wrong by making computers "user friendly", then
every
> idiot in the world could log onto the internet. The reply from J.
McWilliams is
> all the proof of that that you'll ever need.
>

I understood what you meant and indeed I would say Photozoom is pretty
impressive - as far as anything can be that has to 'guess' what would be
there and to at least give the illusion or appearance of more detail - as
good as you are going to get.

My application is to upsize small crops of photos not to make huge prints.
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"Roger N. Clark

External


Since: Oct 04, 2005
Posts: 833



(Msg. 21) Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

SS wrote:
> "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" <username.RemoveThis@qwest.net> wrote in
> message news:471D47AE.2040709@qwest.net...
>> SS wrote:
>>> I have seen that Genuine Fractals and Photozoom seem to be 'intelligent'
>>> software but have also seen a review that puts the fred Miranda 'stair
>>> interpolation' Photoshop action better than these. I wonder what
>>> experiences/advice the subscribers to this newsgroup can give. Is there
>>> anything even better on the market now.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>> Image Restoration Using Adaptive Richardson-Lucy Iteration
>> http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/image-restoration1
>>
>> Roger
>
> Interesting!
>
> Is this software available to the public? If so where?

Richardson-Lucy routines are available in ImagesPlus
at http://www.mlunsold.com

I think software like Iris may have it (free):
http://astrosurf.org/buil

and perhaps IRAF http://iraf.noao.edu

Roger
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"Roger N. Clark

External


Since: Oct 04, 2005
Posts: 833



(Msg. 22) Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Bill Tuthill wrote:
> "Roger N. Clark" wrote:
>> SS asked:
>>> I have seen that Genuine Fractals and Photozoom seem to be 'intelligent'
>>> software but have also seen a review that puts the fred Miranda 'stair
>>> interpolation' Photoshop action better than these. I wonder what
>>> experiences/advice the subscribers to this newsgroup can give. Is there
>>> anything even better on the market now.
>> Image Restoration Using Adaptive Richardson-Lucy Iteration
>> http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/image-restoration1
>
> I think Qimage from ddisoftware.com
> and SAR from general-cathexis.com
> produce the best upsampling results.
>

Upsampling is different than Richardson-Lucy algorithms.
Richardson-Lucy redistributes data within existing pixels to
improve resolution.

Roger
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Bill Tuthill

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Since: Sep 07, 2006
Posts: 291



(Msg. 23) Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

IggyZiggy <blocker.TakeThisOut@spamfree.com> wrote:
>
> Any of you who have never tried some specialty upsampling software,
> check out that PhotoZoom program. I think it's much better than
> Genuine Fractals. GF always left huge plasticky details that reminded
> me of a bad posterization job. The extra detail created in PhotoZoom
> looks about as real as anything I've ever seen before.

The PhotoZoom website is very convincing for showing how it is better
than Photoshop bicubic sharper upsampling.

However, the comparison on the SAR website shows it to be inferior,
in my opinion, to Qimage and several SAR algorithms, in particular:
Data Dependent Lanczos 3 with SuperRez Postprocessing
Windowless Xin Li with SuperRez Postprocessing

http://general-cathexis.com/interpolation.html
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Bill Tuthill

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Since: Sep 07, 2006
Posts: 291



(Msg. 24) Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" <username.TakeThisOut@qwest.net> wrote:
>
> Upsampling is different than Richardson-Lucy algorithms.
> Richardson-Lucy redistributes data within existing pixels to
> improve resolution.

Ah, thanks.

Is Richardson-Lucy redistribution one of the methods (or the only method)
used by Focal Magic? www.focusmagic.com
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Bill Tuthill

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Since: Sep 07, 2006
Posts: 291



(Msg. 25) Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Bill Tuthill <ccreekin.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> The PhotoZoom website is very convincing for showing how it is better
> than Photoshop bicubic sharper upsampling.

Sorry, that should be "bicubic smoother upsampling."

> However, the comparison on the SAR website shows it to be inferior,
> in my opinion, to Qimage and several SAR algorithms.
> http://general-cathexis.com/interpolation.html
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"Roger N. Clark

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Since: Oct 04, 2005
Posts: 833



(Msg. 26) Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Bill Tuthill wrote:
> "Roger N. Clark (change username to rnclark)" <username.TakeThisOut@qwest.net> wrote:
>> Upsampling is different than Richardson-Lucy algorithms.
>> Richardson-Lucy redistributes data within existing pixels to
>> improve resolution.
>
> Ah, thanks.
>
> Is Richardson-Lucy redistribution one of the methods (or the only method)
> used by Focal Magic? www.focusmagic.com
>
Bill,
I'm not sure, but looking at the web site it looks like it might,
or it might be a similar algorithm (there are several variants).

Roger
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BradGuth

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Since: Nov 24, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 27) Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:26 am
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Oct 23, 7:17 am, IggyZiggy <bloc....TakeThisOut@spamfree.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:07:39 -0700, John McWilliams <jp....TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
> >IggyZiggy wrote:
>
> >> The extra detail created in PhotoZoom looks about as real as anything I've ever
> >> seen before.
>
> >Yes, software that creates extra detail is indeed 'real'.
>
> >Snorfle.
>
> Would it have helped to prevent you from revealing your immaturity and stupidity
> with your "snorfle" if I had said "real looking" instead of just "real"? The
> same is implied when stated either way, IF you could understand simple syntax of
> the english language. Hint: "looks about as real as" = "real looking" = "not
> really real, but looks as if it could be real." Do you need everyone to explain
> such simple things to you all the time? Don't bother answering, I already know
> the answer to that is "yes". They get dumber and dumber all the time online. I
> knew they did something wrong by making computers "user friendly", then every
> idiot in the world could log onto the internet. The reply from J. McWilliams is
> all the proof of that that you'll ever need.

Folks in Usenet naysayland are not real, as they don't even believe in
AGW, yet they believed those mostly nice Muslims had WMD. Go figure.

Word games is pretty much the best any such Usenet rusemasters can
muster. I honestly think it's a semitic kind of DNA code they can't
avoid. Of course, they'll usually claim atheism as their pretend
faith, so what's the difference.
--
Brad Guth
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BradGuth

External


Since: Nov 24, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 28) Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:30 am
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Oct 23, 8:08 am, IggyZiggy <bloc....DeleteThis@spamfree.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:59:57 -0700, John McWilliams <jp....DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:
> >IggyZiggy wrote:
> >> On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:07:39 -0700, John McWilliams <jp....DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >>> IggyZiggy wrote:
>
> >>>> The extra detail created in PhotoZoom looks about as real as anything I've ever
> >>>> seen before.
> >>> Yes, software that creates extra detail is indeed 'real'.
>
> >>> Snorfle.
>
> >> Would it have helped to prevent you from revealing your immaturity and stupidity
> >> with your "snorfle" if I had said "real looking" instead of just "real"?
>
> >No. Look at what you wrote: You said "extra detail created." A more
> >ignorant assertion has been made on usenet, but that was months ago. And
> >this *is* usenet, not the internet.
>
> I just scanned over some of the other "helpful" photography advice that you hand
> out. None of it even remotely related to photography. Welcome to the ever
> growing troll-filter.
>
> Troll-Filter? Meet John McWilliams. John McWilliams? Meet Troll-Filter. You two
> have a lot in common. Go ahead and discuss your "important" and helpful on-topic
> issues with each other. I'm sure you'll be at it for a very long time.
>
> PLONK

Your "John McWilliams. John McWilliams" is simply doing his/her MI5/
NSA/CIA job, just like in those good old Third Reich days.
--
Brad Guth
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BradGuth

External


Since: Nov 24, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 29) Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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You're one of them, arnt you. Is your nose every bit as brown as it
should be?

Why don't you want the rest of us honest folks resampling and
unsharping those images?
--
Brad Guth


Jürgen Exner wrote:
> BradGuth wrote:
> > Your "John McWilliams. John McWilliams" is simply doing his/her MI5/
> > NSA/CIA job, just like in those good old Third Reich days.
>
> Great. Now that we have established the validity of Godwin's Law maybe
> everyone can go back to photography?
>
> +-------------------+ .:\:\:/:/:.
> | PLEASE DO NOT | :.:\:\:/:/:.:
> | FEED THE TROLLS | :=.' - - '.=:
> | | '=(\ 9 9 /)='
> | Thank you, | ( (_) )
> | Management | /`-vvv-'\
> +-------------------+ / \
> | | @@@ / /|,,,,,|\ \
> | | @@@ /_// /^\ \\_\
> @x@@x@ | | |/ WW( ( ) )WW
> \||||/ | | \| __\,,\ /,,/__
> \||/ | | | jgs (______Y______)
> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
>
> jue
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Jürgen Exner

External


Since: Apr 15, 2007
Posts: 228



(Msg. 30) Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Best software for increasing resolution? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

BradGuth wrote:
> Your "John McWilliams. John McWilliams" is simply doing his/her MI5/
> NSA/CIA job, just like in those good old Third Reich days.

Great. Now that we have established the validity of Godwin's Law maybe
everyone can go back to photography?

+-------------------+ .:\:\:/:/:.
| PLEASE DO NOT | :.:\:\:/:/:.:
| FEED THE TROLLS | :=.' - - '.=:
| | '=(\ 9 9 /)='
| Thank you, | ( (_) )
| Management | /`-vvv-'\
+-------------------+ / \
| | @@@ / /|,,,,,|\ \
| | @@@ /_// /^\ \\_\
@x@@x@ | | |/ WW( ( ) )WW
\||||/ | | \| __\,,\ /,,/__
\||/ | | | jgs (______Y______)
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

jue
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