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ASAAR

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Since: Aug 02, 2005
Posts: 3969



(Msg. 16) Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:55 am
Post subject: Re: Camera Acronyms - Get it right people! was: Panasonic digital cameras [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>photo>digital, others (more info?)

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:20:41 GMT, Henry Hank wrote:

> Wha? OH, you *meant* to say shutter-speed priority and aperture priority.
> Now I get it, you're just a dumbshit CEO-pawn marketing idiot out to make
> everyone appear to be as much of an idiot as you are. Okay, I get it now.
> . . .
>
> I for one never give into the stupidity and ignorance of others just to make it
> easy for them. That would make me just as idiotic and stupid as they are.

Greetings, sock puppet. The name has once again changed, but the
message sure hasn't. Why don't you sit yourself down and think calm
thoughts over a nice, warm glass of milk.


> I don't know how much of this stupidity of humanity I can take anymore.
> It seems to be growing exponentially.

Oh, I see. Then perhaps some Kool-Aid would be more appropriate.

Smile Time to roll out the all new . . .

> **** CHDK / Photoline 32 / anti-DSLR Sock Puppet Troll List ****
>
> Baumbadier, Brad M, Bucky, CharleiD, CoolGuy, DOCJohnson,
> D-Rexter, EdBancroft, email.DeleteThis@email.com, Fed-Up-With-Corel,
> FrankLM, GilfordBrimly, GoKiting, Henry Hank, HokusPokus,
> JoeBS, Lurk, NameHere, NameThere, New2_S3,
> nobody.DeleteThis@noplace.org, RockyZ, SayWhat, SelfImporantName,
> SelfImportantName, Soujourner, spamless, TryinToHelp,
> WillyWonka and X-Man.

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Craig Stevens

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Since: Jul 31, 2007
Posts: 1



(Msg. 17) Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:56 am
Post subject: Re: Camera Acronyms - Get it right people! was: Panasonic digital cameras [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Pooh-Man

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Since: Jul 31, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 18) Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:56 am
Post subject: Re: Camera Acronyms - Get it right people! was: Panasonic digital cameras [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Henry Hank" <nocontact.TakeThisOut@noaddress.com> wrote in message
news:0stta35sok21cn8cvesso048kitp9a7ro2@4ax.com...
> So there you have it, "SLDC" and "UZDC" to describe these cameras. Start
> using
> them or something just as accurate. Or appear to look the fool forever
> more --
> just as you have been appearing since the use of "P&S" became commonplace.
>


What's the acronym for a DC with swiveling lens? They are in their own
league so need an acronym too. I trust you will come up with a good one that
we can all use.
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irwell

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Since: Aug 26, 2005
Posts: 285



(Msg. 19) Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:56 am
Post subject: Re: Camera Acronyms - Get it right people! was: Panasonic digital cameras [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>photo>digital (more info?)

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:07:40 GMT, "Pooh-Man" <not_for RemoveThis @email.invalid>
wrote:

>"Henry Hank" <nocontact RemoveThis @noaddress.com> wrote in message
>news:0stta35sok21cn8cvesso048kitp9a7ro2@4ax.com...
>> So there you have it, "SLDC" and "UZDC" to describe these cameras. Start
>> using
>> them or something just as accurate. Or appear to look the fool forever
>> more --
>> just as you have been appearing since the use of "P&S" became commonplace.
>>
>
>
>What's the acronym for a DC with swiveling lens? They are in their own
>league so need an acronym too. I trust you will come up with a good one that
>we can all use.

FAPS.
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Pooh-Man

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Since: Jul 31, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 20) Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:56 am
Post subject: Re: Camera Acronyms - Get it right people! was: Panasonic digital cameras [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>photo>digital, others (more info?)

"Henry Hank" <nocontact.TakeThisOut@noaddress.com> wrote in message
news:su4ua35f1ufsb8cvcfe7qeilp0mt12op8h@4ax.com...
> I don't know how much of this stupidity of humanity I can take anymore. It
> seems
> to be growing exponentially.
>

Don't do it Hank! We all love you.
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Richard Polhill

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Since: Oct 20, 2006
Posts: 49



(Msg. 21) Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:56 am
Post subject: Re: Camera Acronyms - Get it right people! was: Panasonic digital [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Henry Hank wrote:

>
> Just because a manufacturer uses some board-meeting-agreed-on marketing term
> doesn't mean they are totally accurate either. Just like Canon starting that
> silly Tv and Av mode on their cameras. Time-value? Aperture-value? Wha? OH, you
> *meant* to say shutter-speed priority and aperture priority. Now I get it,
> you're just a dumbshit CEO-pawn marketing idiot out to make everyone appear to
> be as much of an idiot as you are. Okay, I get it now.

I don't think it was Canon's invention. It was once quite common.

>
> If Olympus really wanted to be accurate it should have been SZLR, for Single
> Zoom-Lens Reflex. It's a shame that this acronym has crept into common use for
> digital cameras. It's hard to take anyone seriously in this area of interest if
> they keep throwing around terms with such arcane origins and now wrongly
> applying them to unrelated devices.

I believe Olympus can call it what they like as long as the claim isn't
inaccurate.

If other people start to misapply the term then that's something else.

>
> Just how hard would it be to turn the tide of ignorance and bad habit online? If
> everyone started using SLDC and UZDC today it could also spread by wildfire just
> as fast as the wrong terms had spread. When asked what you meant, tell them. Or
> just include it in parens until they get the drift of it. I.e. "The latest SLDC
> (single lens digital camera) from So-And-So company is ..." Try to turn it now,
> or people will be looking like fools for the whole next century. You have as
> much power to use and promote more correct terms as did the idiots who started
> using and promoting the wrong ones.

Heh, well on Usenet you'd have to just use it as if everyone knows what it
means. It's like the emperor's new clothes: if you make it sound like only the
ignorant don't know, everyone will pretend they do.

>
> I for one never give into the stupidity and ignorance of others just to make it
> easy for them. That would make me just as idiotic and stupid as they are.
>
Hear hear!
>
>
> QWERTY made a lot of sense in the beginning, it stopped the typewriter hammers
> from locking up on fast typers. Today, putting a QWERTY keyboard on a small
> handheld device is just absurd. Yet they do it, and the manufacturers end up
> looking like fools to me, while making the average non-typer hunt all over
> trying to find the letters.

Yes it's origins were to avoid mechanical problems on typewriters, however you
are overlooking another fundamental aspect: familiarity. The qwerty keyboard
is well recognized as a standard, and understood by an enormous number of
people. Anyone who regularly uses a computer can use one pretty quickly and
can locate the letter they want with little thought. Those who don't normally
use a qwerty keyboard may have to hunt and peck, at least until they gain
familiarity. And that familiarity, once gained, carries over to any other
qwerty keyboard one is exposed to.

Any other layout results in hunt-and-peck typing for everyone event though
there are a lot of people that are already familiar with qwerty. If you use an
alphabetical layout, you have to break the alphabet over several rows. For
this there is no conventional mapping, the breaks are arbitrary. You may get
used to a 5-row layout and then have to use a 4-row keyboard. For example,
when typing "where" do I have to go left or right from "h" to "e"?

Anyone can come up with more rational designs for everyday items but can
rarely overcome the human interface benefits of familiarity and convention.

>
> I don't know how much of this stupidity of humanity I can take anymore. It seems
> to be growing exponentially.
>

Well the choice is yours I guess. Hamlet had it:

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.

I'm sure bungee jumping without the bungee would do the trick.
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Tony Polson

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Since: Jan 26, 2007
Posts: 107



(Msg. 22) Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:56 am
Post subject: Re: Camera Acronyms - Get it right people! was: Panasonic digital cameras [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Henry Hank <nocontact.TakeThisOut@noaddress.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:26:20 +0100, Tony Polson <tp.TakeThisOut@nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>ZLR is a perfectly valid term. It was applied to Olympus 35mm film
>>SLRs with a reflex mirror and a non-interchangeable zoom lens, such as
>>the IS1, IS2 and IS3 (IS 1000, IS 2000 and IS 3000 outside the USA).
>>
>>When Olympus started producing DSLRs with a non-interchangeable zoom
>>lens, the term was also used. The E-10 and E-20 were both ZLRs.
>>
>>"Zoom lens reflex" perfectly describes these cameras. The problem is
>>when ignorant and ill-informed people apply a perfectly valid term to
>>cameras that don't fit the description.
>
>Just because a manufacturer uses some board-meeting-agreed-on marketing term
>doesn't mean they are totally accurate either. Just like Canon starting that
>silly Tv and Av mode on their cameras. Time-value? Aperture-value? Wha? OH, you
>*meant* to say shutter-speed priority and aperture priority. Now I get it,
>you're just a dumbshit CEO-pawn marketing idiot out to make everyone appear to
>be as much of an idiot as you are. Okay, I get it now.
>
>If Olympus really wanted to be accurate it should have been SZLR, for Single
>Zoom-Lens Reflex. It's a shame that this acronym has crept into common use for
>digital cameras. It's hard to take anyone seriously in this area of interest if
>they keep throwing around terms with such arcane origins and now wrongly
>applying them to unrelated devices.


You can rant on about Olympus as much as you like. But I don't think
Olympus coined the term, nor did Olympus ever use it in their own
publicity material. It was merely a term that other people applied to
Olympus cameras.
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David J Taylor

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Since: Jul 27, 2007
Posts: 604



(Msg. 23) Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Camera Acronyms - Get it right people! was: Panasonic digital cameras [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>photo>digital (more info?)

Tony Polson wrote:
[]
> You can rant on about Olympus as much as you like. But I don't think
> Olympus coined the term, nor did Olympus ever use it in their own
> publicity material. It was merely a term that other people applied to
> Olympus cameras.

I found this:

http://www.olympusamerica.com/oai_pressDetails.asp?pressNo=32

David
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David J Taylor

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Since: Jul 27, 2007
Posts: 604



(Msg. 24) Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Camera Acronyms - Get it right people! was: Panasonic digital cameras [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

irwell wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:54:40 GMT, "David J Taylor"
[]
>> rec.photo.digital.rangefinder
>
>
> Don't see this one listed, is it new?

No, it was created in October 2004 along with the other three.

David
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Gordon Freeman

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Since: Jul 07, 2007
Posts: 6



(Msg. 25) Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:56 pm
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SMS <scharf.steven RemoveThis @geemail.com> wrote:

> It's not so difficult, especially if you want that 28mm. Applying just
> some very basic requirements you can eliminate most cameras from
> consideration:
>
> 1. Low-noise
> 2. Optical Viewfinder (or at least an EVF)
> 3. Zoom of at least 28mm at the wide end
>
> Here's what you end up with (let me know if I've missed any):
>
> Pocket
> ------
> Canon SD800 IS
>
>
> Compact
> -------
> None
>
> ZLR
> ---
> Fuji FinePix S8000fd (probably...too new to know about the noise)


In the compact category, the Ricoh GX100 has an optional EVF viewfinder and
24-72mm lens (19mm with converter). It's very expensive for a compact
though (£350-£400 with viewfinder), and I haven't seen a single online shop
which lists the DW6 converter for getting the 19mm. Nevertheless it's very
tempting since it's only 220g and very compact, half the bulk of even the
smallest DSLR+lens.
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ASAAR

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Since: Aug 02, 2005
Posts: 3969



(Msg. 26) Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:56 pm
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On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:16:25 -0700, SMS wrote:

> Yeah, I keep forgetting about Ricoh since they left the U.S.
> camera market many years ago. Adorama in Brooklyn NY
> gray markets many of the Ricoh cameras. The GX100 sells
> for $700 with the removable viewfinder, ouch.

I've only been to the Adorama in Manhattan, NY and didn't realize
that they had a storefront in Brooklyn. As with Abe's of Maine,
with a name like Broadway Photo, they probably are located in
Brooklyn instead of the assumed Manhattan. I also thought that the
Ricoh described was the GR Digital. Is the GX100 the same or a
different camera? Anybody? (if SMS replies at all it will likely
be through his alter ego).
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SMS

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Since: Sep 08, 2005
Posts: 954



(Msg. 27) Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:56 pm
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Gordon Freeman wrote:

> In the compact category, the Ricoh GX100 has an optional EVF viewfinder and
> 24-72mm lens (19mm with converter). It's very expensive for a compact
> though (£350-£400 with viewfinder), and I haven't seen a single online shop
> which lists the DW6 converter for getting the 19mm. Nevertheless it's very
> tempting since it's only 220g and very compact, half the bulk of even the
> smallest DSLR+lens.

Yeah, I keep forgetting about Ricoh since they left the U.S. camera
market many years ago. Adorama in Brooklyn NY gray markets many of the
Ricoh cameras. The GX100 sells for $700 with the removable viewfinder, ouch.

Adorama does sell the DW6 converter,
"http://www.adorama.com/IRCDW6.html". It's $140.

You also need the HA-2, which is another $45,
"http://www.adorama.com/IRCHA2.html?searchinfo=ha-2&item_no=2?searchinfo=ha-2&item_no=2"

Clearly the Ricoh GX100 with the DW6 converter is the widest angle
non-DSLR available. At $885, I'm not sure how big the market is, but I
guess there is always some market for high-end stuff like that. 24mm is
still better than about any P&S on the market, even without the
conversion lens.
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Ron Hunter

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Since: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 2796



(Msg. 28) Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:12 am
Post subject: Re: Camera Acronyms - Get it right people! was: Panasonic digital [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Henry Hank wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:37:20 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven.RemoveThis@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you're willing to use conversion lenses, then the list grows, as
>> there are several compacts and ZLRs that can achieve 28mm at the wide
>> end with the use of a conversion lens.
>
> Who started this bizarre and totally wrong "ZLR" acronym? It makes absolutely no
> sense whatsoever. People who keep using it are just parroting others that
> invented this misnomer without realizing the error.
>
> ZLR, Zoom-Lens-Reflex for a long-zoom P&S camera? The R needs to be thrown out.
> "Reflex" in SLR (single lens reflex) and d-SLR (digital single lens reflex)
> stands for the ancient mirror and reflected light path required in that camera
> design. If R is thrown out to be more accurate, then you have a ZL (zoom lens)
> camera? Great, so every P&S camera with 1.1x to 18x qualifies as a ZL camera.
> You can be more accurate with UZPS (ultra-zoom P&S), since everyone keeps
> calling non-DSLR cameras as P&S cameras, even though DSLRs are revered for being
> even more of a P&S camera than P&S cameras. Again, just more nonsense on the
> net.
>
> Don't you just hate it when erroneous information and nonsense catch-phrases
> start spreading like wildfire on the net, everyone repeating it without even
> understanding why they are saying it, then everyone starts looking like idiots.
> They think it means something because someone else said it, looking just as
> foolish as the first person that used it.
>
> Get your acts together people. Find words and acronyms that accurately describe
> these different cameras or don't talk about them at all until you figure it out.
>
>
> I propose, for accuracy, that:
>
> * P&S should be done away with completely, since ALL cameras today are P&S
> cameras, especially DSLRs. Instead use "SLDC" for "Single Lens Digital Camera".
>
> * An "SLDC" with ultra-zoom (10x optical-zoom or more) as "UZDC", "Ultra-Zoom
> Digital Camera", since they are generally in a class of their own the last few
> years and everyone knows what design you are referring to. The UZDC being just a
> subset of all SLDCs
>
> * DSLR can remain DSLR. Or if being praised for how fast they perform
> automatically then a "DSLR-P&S" if you want to be accurate.
>
> Of course this is never going to happen because the DSLR crowd loves throwing
> around the P&S acronym as a handy (but totally inaccurate) and childish insult
> to anyone that doesn't buy a DSLR. Even though their DSLR is a high-priced P&S
> but they won't admit it. (This is no different than christians that run around
> calling people Pagans and Heathens never knowing what Pagan really means, or
> that Heathen just means one who lives on the Heath. Or the wealthy who run
> around calling everyone who has less as "hicks" just so they can feel better
> about being greedy.) Calling an SLDC as a P&S is one of the few ways they can
> pretend to be superior, they'll never give up that. Sometimes it's all they have
> left in light of the new advances in SLDC and UZDC designs.
>
> So there you have it, "SLDC" and "UZDC" to describe these cameras. Start using
> them or something just as accurate. Or appear to look the fool forever more --
> just as you have been appearing since the use of "P&S" became commonplace.
>
Why worry about such things while we still 'dial numbers' on our
cell-phones? Ever see a cell phone with a rotary pulse dialer?
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David J Taylor

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Since: Jul 27, 2007
Posts: 604



(Msg. 29) Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:34 am
Post subject: Re: Panasonic digital cameras [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>photo>digital (more info?)

SMS wrote:
[]
> Clearly the Ricoh GX100 with the DW6 converter is the widest angle
> non-DSLR available. At $885, I'm not sure how big the market is, but I
> guess there is always some market for high-end stuff like that. 24mm
> is still better than about any P&S on the market, even without the
> conversion lens.

Actually, the Nikon 8400 with its add-on converter offers an even wider
18mm wide-angle, and 24 - 85mm basic zoom.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/nikon8400.html

Some shots including the 18mm wide-angle here:

http://www.larry-bolch.com/CP8400/

Cheers,
David
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Henry Hank

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Since: Jul 31, 2007
Posts: 4



(Msg. 30) Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:55 am
Post subject: Re: Camera Acronyms - Get it right people! was: Panasonic digital cameras [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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