D300 shoots like D3 !!!

On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:15:50 -0900, floyd.DeleteThis@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
wrote in <87fxw6zxyx.fld.DeleteThis@apaflo.com>:

>Trust that there is *no* bracketing. Each and every
>image is taken with exactly the same exposure. Otherwise
>it wouldn't work as well. You'd average in blown highlights
>and lost shadows... making the result worse than the one shot
>that was properly exposed.

Are you sure the camera doesn't do that? Properly done bracketing and
combining should yield a HDR image.

>The reason it works is because light from the scene for
>any give pixel will be the same each and every time. So
>the average of a number of images is exactly the same as
>any one of the images. But noise is randomly
>distributed, and will have a slightly different
>distribution with each image. Any pixel that has a high
>noise component in one image will not have a high noise
>component in all images. Hence noise will average
>*lower* in the combined image than the peak noise will
>be in any of the individual images.

Actually that the amount of noise in a given pixel of a given image is
random, and thus will tend to decrease when values are averaged. See
<http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/noise-reduction.htm>

>If there is less noise, then more detail is visible.
>That by definition is more dynamic range.

Yes, but not the same as HDR.

--
Best regards,
John Navas
Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
 >> Stay informed about: D300 shoots like D3 !!! 

On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:38:50 -0900, floyd RemoveThis @apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
wrote in <873as6zrcl.fld RemoveThis @apaflo.com>:

>John Navas <spamfilter1 RemoveThis @navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:15:50 -0900, floyd RemoveThis @apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
>>wrote in <87fxw6zxyx.fld RemoveThis @apaflo.com>:
>>
>>>Trust that there is *no* bracketing. Each and every
>>>image is taken with exactly the same exposure. Otherwise
>>>it wouldn't work as well. You'd average in blown highlights
>>>and lost shadows... making the result worse than the one shot
>>>that was properly exposed.
>>
>>Are you sure the camera doesn't do that? Properly done bracketing and
>>combining should yield a HDR image.
>
>It won't if the "combining" is either averaging pixel
>values with "autogain" circuit or just an additive
>process, which are the two options available with Nikon
>cameras.
>
>>>The reason it works is because light from the scene for
>>>any give pixel will be the same each and every time. So
>>>the average of a number of images is exactly the same as
>>>any one of the images. But noise is randomly
>>>distributed, and will have a slightly different
>>>distribution with each image. Any pixel that has a high
>>>noise component in one image will not have a high noise
>>>component in all images. Hence noise will average
>>>*lower* in the combined image than the peak noise will
>>>be in any of the individual images.
>>
>>Actually that the amount of noise in a given pixel of a given image is
>>random, and thus will tend to decrease when values are averaged. See
>><http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/noise-reduction.htm>
>
>Not quite. The randomness that counts for averaging is
>how random different images are for the noise at a given
>pixel. The fact that different pixels within each image
>have a random noise distribution is not particularly
>significant (other than the two characteristics result
>from the same cause).
>
>>>If there is less noise, then more detail is visible.
>>>That by definition is more dynamic range.
>>
>>Yes, but not the same as HDR.
>
>Exactly. That's why his statement that he saw more
>range was not really true. All he saw was less noise.

Agreed.

--
Best regards,
John Navas
Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
 >> Stay informed about: D300 shoots like D3 !!! 

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems.]
Sosumi <sosumi.DeleteThis@home.nl> wrote:
> "John Navas" <spamfilter1.DeleteThis@navasgroup.com> wrote in message

>> Welcome to the party! Works with any camera.
>> See thread "Noise Reduction By Image Averaging"

> This is totally different from what I do. No software is used! All in
> camera, except the NEF to JPG conversion.

Your camera runs on steam and gears?

> It's not averaging,

Nikon does (spatial) averaging, at least on longer exposures, even
with it's RAW! Astro-guys are regularly bitching and moaning,
as that blurring is of course less than perfect for fainter stars.

Google for Nikon and "Mode 3" ...

And yes, it is averaging.

-Wolfgang
 >> Stay informed about: D300 shoots like D3 !!! 

On Feb 5, 3:48 pm, "Sosumi" <sos....DeleteThis@home.nl> wrote:
> If you do studio work or low light, not moving objects and you want the
> highest possible resolution, dynamic and tonal range, check this out:
>
> http://www.nikon-box.com/MultiX/
>
> Much better than any normal way of shooting with the D300 !
>
> If you're happy with the results and save 3000,- dollars because you realize
> that now all you need is the D300 instead of the D3, feel free to donate me
> some of all that saved money. ) Maybe I can finally buy that lens...
>

It seems to me you're relatively new to the group, so welcome. Don't
mind rude jerks like Floyd L. Davidson (who has no sense of humor and
a major stick up his ass). Many of them are good resources, so take
what you can and ignore the rest.

Regards,
Matt Clara

--
www.mattclara.com
 >> Stay informed about: D300 shoots like D3 !!! 

"Yvan Descartes" <yvan.descartes.DeleteThis@rip.ccc> wrote in message
news:fob7o0$qdm$1@aioe.org...
>
> "John Navas" <spamfilter1.DeleteThis@navasgroup.com> a écrit dans le message de
> news:jalhq3lnotrjsk4j92gnbiiqt4kl75fjvg@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 21:12:10 -0000, "Sosumi" <sosumi.DeleteThis@home.nl> wrote in
>> <zeCdnRWq_9KyTDXaRVnyiwA.DeleteThis@novis.pt>:
>>
>> >"John Navas" <spamfilter1.DeleteThis@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
>> >news:k9jhq35nnc3claf9p05hmk843h307106qr@4ax.com...
>>
>> >> Welcome to the party! Works with any camera.
>> >> See thread "Noise Reduction By Image Averaging"
>> >>
> <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/browse_thread/thread/b9d1d
> f059f100e26/d6b00a2ac821298f#d6b00a2ac821298f>
>> >
>> >This is totally different from what I do. No software is used! All in
>> >camera, except the NEF to JPG conversion.
>> >It's not averaging, but multiple exposure with autogain plus bracketing.
>>
>> That's still image averaging, albeit in camera instead of in
>> post-processing.
>
> the same way the K10D is doing it ?
>
And others and strangely does not work so well for sport so just maybe I
will have to keep the D3.
 >> Stay informed about: D300 shoots like D3 !!! 

"Pete D" <no RemoveThis @email.com> wrote in message
news:47a945bd$0$5616$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> And others and strangely does not work so well for sport so just maybe I
> will have to keep the D3.
>

???
 >> Stay informed about: D300 shoots like D3 !!! 

"N" <N.TakeThisOut@onyx.com> wrote in message
news:47a98db1$0$5633$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> "Pete D" <no.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote in message
> news:47a945bd$0$5616$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> And others and strangely does not work so well for sport so just maybe I
>> will have to keep the D3.
>>
>
> ???

Metaphorically speaking, or is that retorically?
 >> Stay informed about: D300 shoots like D3 !!! 

"Pete D" <no.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote in message
news:47a991c9$0$5612$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
> "N" <N.TakeThisOut@onyx.com> wrote in message
> news:47a98db1$0$5633$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> "Pete D" <no.TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote in message
>> news:47a945bd$0$5616$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>>> And others and strangely does not work so well for sport so just maybe I
>>> will have to keep the D3.
>>>
>>
>> ???
>
> Metaphorically speaking, or is that retorically?
>

wishfully?
 >> Stay informed about: D300 shoots like D3 !!! 

"N" <N DeleteThis @onyx.com> wrote in message
news:47a99845$0$5618$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> "Pete D" <no DeleteThis @email.com> wrote in message
> news:47a991c9$0$5612$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>>
>> "N" <N DeleteThis @onyx.com> wrote in message
>> news:47a98db1$0$5633$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>>> "Pete D" <no DeleteThis @email.com> wrote in message
>>> news:47a945bd$0$5616$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>>>> And others and strangely does not work so well for sport so just maybe
>>>> I will have to keep the D3.
>>>>
>>>
>>> ???
>>
>> Metaphorically speaking, or is that retorically?
>>
>
> wishfully?

Nah, the new Pentax looks nice though, the cost to replace all my glass is
more than I need to spend although I could be swayed when I retire with all
that cash to burn, what about you? The D3's do look very nice!
 >> Stay informed about: D300 shoots like D3 !!! 

On Feb 6, 5:53 am, "Pete D" <n....TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote:

> Metaphorically speaking, or is that retorically?

rhe-tor'i-cal-ly / that spelling courtesy dictionary dot com
 >> Stay informed about: D300 shoots like D3 !!! 

"Pete D" <no.RemoveThis@email.com> wrote in message
news:47aa0d29$0$5587$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
> Nah, the new Pentax looks nice though, the cost to replace all my glass is
> more than I need to spend although I could be swayed when I retire with
> all that cash to burn, what about you? The D3's do look very nice!
>


I still have a mortgage.
 >> Stay informed about: D300 shoots like D3 !!! 

"N" <N RemoveThis @onyx.com> wrote in message
news:47aac95c$0$5621$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> "Pete D" <no RemoveThis @email.com> wrote in message
> news:47aa0d29$0$5587$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>>
>> Nah, the new Pentax looks nice though, the cost to replace all my glass
>> is more than I need to spend although I could be swayed when I retire
>> with all that cash to burn, what about you? The D3's do look very nice!
>>
>>
>
>
> I still have a mortgage.
>

All that aside I have a sign in my office that I try to live by as much as
I can......




WANT = NEED
 >> Stay informed about: D300 shoots like D3 !!! 

"stuseven" <stuseven.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b800024f-c328-4342-b3b2-725d489822dd@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 6, 5:53 am, "Pete D" <n....TakeThisOut@email.com> wrote:

> Metaphorically speaking, or is that retorically?

rhe-tor'i-cal-ly / that spelling courtesy dictionary dot com

Blow-it-out-your-wahzoo........................ Spelling curtesy me.
 >> Stay informed about: D300 shoots like D3 !!!