Software "filter" to remove tungsten lighting effects?

On 9/8/07 12:00 PM, in article tnk5e3hb31mq6gfmds92nhb1uer553l4dc.RemoveThis@4ax.com,
"Wendie Luter" <WendieLuter.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi!
>
> The photographer was not allowed to use flash during the vows of a
> wedding in a chapel with tungsten lighting, so the photos have a
> red-orange overcast. I was able to use PS 6.0 to "hack" the tungsten
> lighting effect into a bareable level.
>
> I'm only an occasional PS user, and used hit-or-miss to achieve barely
> acceptable results. Are there better programs to remove the tungsten
> lighting overcast? Are there digital filters or settings or plug-ins
> for PS to do this with professional and accurate results?
>
> Thank you,
> Wendie
Lightroom comes to mind.
 >> Stay informed about: Software "filter" to remove tungsten lighting effects? 

I've used this with good results:
http://www.thepluginsite.com/products/photowiz/colorwasher/index.htm

Also used AGD Color Temperature & Exposure Correction but looks like
it is no longer available.

You're not alone ...
http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Acoa
 >> Stay informed about: Software "filter" to remove tungsten lighting effects? 

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 07:13:26 -1000, Scott W <biphoto RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Wendie Luter wrote:
>> Hi!
>>
>> The photographer was not allowed to use flash during the vows of a
>> wedding in a chapel with tungsten lighting, so the photos have a
>> red-orange overcast. I was able to use PS 6.0 to "hack" the tungsten
>> lighting effect into a bareable level.
>>
>> I'm only an occasional PS user, and used hit-or-miss to achieve barely
>> acceptable results. Are there better programs to remove the tungsten
>> lighting overcast? Are there digital filters or settings or plug-ins
>> for PS to do this with professional and accurate results?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Wendie
>
>Rather then try to fix the problem after the fact why not just set the
>camera's white balance to tungsten. Better yet shoot raw and set the WB
>to whatever you want when converting the raw images.
>
>If you have photos that have already been taken then look at remove
>color cast, this does not work as well has shooting with the correct WB
>to begin with but it does work OK.
>
>Scott


The photos have been taken, and can't be re-taken. How do I remove
"color cast?" Is this a PhotoShop option?

Thank you,
Wendie
 >> Stay informed about: Software "filter" to remove tungsten lighting effects? 

Wendie Luter wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 07:13:26 -1000, Scott W <biphoto DeleteThis @hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Wendie Luter wrote:
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> The photographer was not allowed to use flash during the vows of a
>>> wedding in a chapel with tungsten lighting, so the photos have a
>>> red-orange overcast. I was able to use PS 6.0 to "hack" the tungsten
>>> lighting effect into a bareable level.
>>>
>>> I'm only an occasional PS user, and used hit-or-miss to achieve barely
>>> acceptable results. Are there better programs to remove the tungsten
>>> lighting overcast? Are there digital filters or settings or plug-ins
>>> for PS to do this with professional and accurate results?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Wendie
>> Rather then try to fix the problem after the fact why not just set the
>> camera's white balance to tungsten. Better yet shoot raw and set the WB
>> to whatever you want when converting the raw images.
>>
>> If you have photos that have already been taken then look at remove
>> color cast, this does not work as well has shooting with the correct WB
>> to begin with but it does work OK.
>>
>> Scott
>
>
> The photos have been taken, and can't be re-taken. How do I remove
> "color cast?" Is this a PhotoShop option?

It should be, I use Photoshop elements, small brother to Photoshop, and
there it is under the enhance menu, adjust color. You get an eye
dropper that you then click on something that you know should be white
in the photo.

Scott
 >> Stay informed about: Software "filter" to remove tungsten lighting effects? 

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 12:16:11 -0500, George Kerby
<ghost_topper RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>On 9/8/07 12:00 PM, in article tnk5e3hb31mq6gfmds92nhb1uer553l4dc RemoveThis @4ax.com,
>"Wendie Luter" <WendieLuter RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> The photographer was not allowed to use flash during the vows of a
>> wedding in a chapel with tungsten lighting, so the photos have a
>> red-orange overcast. I was able to use PS 6.0 to "hack" the tungsten
>> lighting effect into a bareable level.
>>
>> I'm only an occasional PS user, and used hit-or-miss to achieve barely
>> acceptable results. Are there better programs to remove the tungsten
>> lighting overcast? Are there digital filters or settings or plug-ins
>> for PS to do this with professional and accurate results?
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Wendie
>Lightroom comes to mind.

At your suggestion, I checked Lightroom out. This looks to be the
solution.

Thank you,
Wendie
 >> Stay informed about: Software "filter" to remove tungsten lighting effects? 

Wendie Luter <WendieLuter.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>The photographer was not allowed to use flash during the vows of a
>wedding in a chapel with tungsten lighting, so the photos have a
>red-orange overcast. I was able to use PS 6.0 to "hack" the tungsten
>lighting effect into a bareable level.

It's an easy matter to fix.

>I'm only an occasional PS user, and used hit-or-miss to achieve barely
>acceptable results. Are there better programs to remove the tungsten
>lighting overcast? Are there digital filters or settings or plug-ins
>for PS to do this with professional and accurate results?

You don't need any other tools.

First, most decent digitial cameras allow you to set the white balance.
Second, if you're shooting RAW then the RAW converter allows you to set
the white balance. You can just select tungsten from the pull-down menu.
Third, you can use the Image>Adjustments>Curves tool. Click on one of
the three eyedroppers and you can then click on a point in the picture
that should be white (or gray) and Photoshop will make the needed
adjustment.
Fourth, you can use the Color Balance tool (which, IMO, is a pain).

--
Ray Fischer
rfischer.RemoveThis@sonic.net
 >> Stay informed about: Software "filter" to remove tungsten lighting effects? 

"Wendie Luter" <WendieLuter.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tnk5e3hb31mq6gfmds92nhb1uer553l4dc@4ax.com...
> The photographer was not allowed to use flash during the vows of a
> wedding in a chapel with tungsten lighting, so the photos have a
> red-orange overcast. I was able to use PS 6.0 to "hack" the tungsten
> lighting effect into a bareable level.
>
> I'm only an occasional PS user, and used hit-or-miss to achieve barely
> acceptable results. Are there better programs to remove the tungsten
> lighting overcast? Are there digital filters or settings or plug-ins
> for PS to do this with professional and accurate results?

The ideal solution would be to go back to the same location and situation
and take a picture of an 18% grey card, or even a white piece of paper under
the same light and use that to see the colour of the light landing in that
area. You can then balance the colour cast back to neutral and apply the
same correction to your photos. This is especially helpful if you have the
raw images but can be used to correct the jpgs too.

If you have the RAW files from the camera, then just change the colour
temperature and tint back to where you like it or click the white balance
dropper on something white or neutral grey and reconvert the image. This
will give the best result because it is the same as if you had set the white
balance correctly in your camera before you started taking pictures. There
is no loss of image quality.

If you are stuck with jpg pictures (why would you not have the RAWs?) then
you can use the photoshop "levels" (image->adjustments->levels) command and
click the grey point dropper on something white in the image that is not in
a shadow such as the bride's dress, the groom's shirt, a tablecloth,
whatever should be white and not the yellow that you see. This will correct
that image. Just make sure that you don't click on something that is white
and saturated (blown) or the correction will be wrong.

If you don't have any white or neutral grey reference in the image, an
automatic solution in photoshop is to use the "match color" command
(image->adjustments->match color) and click the neutralize button. This
will often do a good job of eliminating any colour casts quickly and
painlessly.

Finally you can use the colour balance control as a last resort to try to
affect the colour balance. Adjust the red-blue balance to try to match the
light, and the green-magenta balance to affect the tint and get the skin
tones nice.

If your photoshop is too old to have these commands (these are in CS2 for
sure), then try the camera maker's software. The Canon zoombrowser software
is able to set the colour balance and Canon Digital Photo Professional has a
white balance dropper for jpgs.

I hope that you have a colour calibrated computer monitor to edit these on.
It would be a shame if you spent the time and effort to get the iamges
looking good on your monitor only to find that your monitor has a colour
cast and your new prints come out with the opposite cast as a result.
 >> Stay informed about: Software "filter" to remove tungsten lighting effects? 

On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 13:00:23 -0400, Wendie Luter
<WendieLuter.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hi!
>
>The photographer was not allowed to use flash during the vows of a
>wedding in a chapel with tungsten lighting, so the photos have a
>red-orange overcast. I was able to use PS 6.0 to "hack" the tungsten
>lighting effect into a bareable level.
>
>I'm only an occasional PS user, and used hit-or-miss to achieve barely
>acceptable results. Are there better programs to remove the tungsten
>lighting overcast? Are there digital filters or settings or plug-ins
>for PS to do this with professional and accurate results?
>
>Thank you,
>Wendie


I used ColorWasher 2.02b and it did a very good job!

Thank you to all who responded.

Wendie
 >> Stay informed about: Software "filter" to remove tungsten lighting effects? 

On 9/8/07 3:19 PM, in article hs06e3phgk79napnal77il9o3obp2o9jir.RemoveThis@4ax.com,
"Wendie Luter" <WendieLuter.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 12:16:11 -0500, George Kerby
> <ghost_topper.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/8/07 12:00 PM, in article tnk5e3hb31mq6gfmds92nhb1uer553l4dc.RemoveThis@4ax.com,
>> "Wendie Luter" <WendieLuter.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> The photographer was not allowed to use flash during the vows of a
>>> wedding in a chapel with tungsten lighting, so the photos have a
>>> red-orange overcast. I was able to use PS 6.0 to "hack" the tungsten
>>> lighting effect into a bareable level.
>>>
>>> I'm only an occasional PS user, and used hit-or-miss to achieve barely
>>> acceptable results. Are there better programs to remove the tungsten
>>> lighting overcast? Are there digital filters or settings or plug-ins
>>> for PS to do this with professional and accurate results?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Wendie
>> Lightroom comes to mind.
>
> At your suggestion, I checked Lightroom out. This looks to be the
> solution.
>
> Thank you,
> Wendie
You are welcome.
 >> Stay informed about: Software "filter" to remove tungsten lighting effects? 

David J. Littleboy wrote:
<snip>
> Have you ever gotten a decent result doing that? I certainly haven't. In
> real life, nothing's actually white* and any daylight scene has both shadow
> and directly lit areas with different color temperatures.
>
<snip>
That is generally true, but I have never been a guest at a wedding in
the US that didn't have _some_ white. I will say that I have encountered
some Chinese weddings (quite often held in large restaurants in Austin;
the restaurants usually continue to serve customers in a small
segregated area)) where red is the predominant color.
Allen
 >> Stay informed about: Software "filter" to remove tungsten lighting effects? 

"Scott W" <biphoto DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> It should be, I use Photoshop elements, small brother to Photoshop, and
> there it is under the enhance menu, adjust color. You get an eye dropper
> that you then click on something that you know should be white in the
> photo.

Have you ever gotten a decent result doing that? I certainly haven't. In
real life, nothing's actually white* and any daylight scene has both shadow
and directly lit areas with different color temperatures.

In raw conversion, checking the overall impression by eye and looking at the
readouts for areas that should be gray or white to make sure that things are
reasonable is a pain, but it seems to be required.

*: I just did a test shot with three reference cards: a resolution test
image printed on enhanced matte (very blue from the whiteners), a Kodak 18%
gray card (roughly neutral), and a Kodak gray scale (patches of different
gray levels in 1/3 stop increments) that is strongly warm toned. Not only
did all three have different color temperatures, but the differences were
large.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 >> Stay informed about: Software "filter" to remove tungsten lighting effects? 

David J. Littleboy wrote:
> "Scott W" <biphoto DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>It should be, I use Photoshop elements, small brother to Photoshop, and
>>there it is under the enhance menu, adjust color. You get an eye dropper
>>that you then click on something that you know should be white in the
>>photo.
>
>
> Have you ever gotten a decent result doing that? I certainly haven't. In
> real life, nothing's actually white* and any daylight scene has both shadow
> and directly lit areas with different color temperatures.
>
> In raw conversion, checking the overall impression by eye and looking at the
> readouts for areas that should be gray or white to make sure that things are
> reasonable is a pain, but it seems to be required.
>
> *: I just did a test shot with three reference cards: a resolution test
> image printed on enhanced matte (very blue from the whiteners), a Kodak 18%
> gray card (roughly neutral), and a Kodak gray scale (patches of different
> gray levels in 1/3 stop increments) that is strongly warm toned. Not only
> did all three have different color temperatures, but the differences were
> large.
>
> David J. Littleboy
> Tokyo, Japan
>
>
In Elements 3 there is Filters/adjustment/photo filter/
you can select 80 and 82 cooling filters and play around with them.
They do have a density setting and if you get one picture to look right
then applying that setting to sebsequent shots (under that same
lighting) should - in theory - work as well for them.
This assumes your memory of what colors looked like is correct and that
your monitor is calibrated.

As David points out, nothing is white, this tool allows you to make
adjustments with your eyes rather than Photoshop's single fix it button.

JD
 >> Stay informed about: Software "filter" to remove tungsten lighting effects? 

David J. Littleboy wrote:
> "Scott W" <biphoto DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>> It should be, I use Photoshop elements, small brother to Photoshop, and
>> there it is under the enhance menu, adjust color. You get an eye dropper
>> that you then click on something that you know should be white in the
>> photo.
>
> Have you ever gotten a decent result doing that? I certainly haven't. In
> real life, nothing's actually white* and any daylight scene has both shadow
> and directly lit areas with different color temperatures.
>
> In raw conversion, checking the overall impression by eye and looking at the
> readouts for areas that should be gray or white to make sure that things are
> reasonable is a pain, but it seems to be required.
>
> *: I just did a test shot with three reference cards: a resolution test
> image printed on enhanced matte (very blue from the whiteners), a Kodak 18%
> gray card (roughly neutral), and a Kodak gray scale (patches of different
> gray levels in 1/3 stop increments) that is strongly warm toned. Not only
> did all three have different color temperatures, but the differences were
> large.


I don't have much luck with the remove color cast if the WB is off by
very much and all I have to work with is a jpeg. If the color is close
then the remove color cast can work ok. But I far prefer to work with
the raw image, in which case the eye dropper often gets me close enough
that I don't feel the need for further adjustments.

In this version of a photo I used the table cloth as my white reference,
the resulting color temp comes out at 2050 and looks pretty good to my
eye.
http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/85274129

If I try to use the tea cup as a white reference I get a color temp of
1950, and the image look far to blue.
http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/85274439
So you need a good white reference, or you need to adjust by hand.

If I try to work with a jpeg things are not as good, in this case I see
the color temp at 2500, which give an image that if far too warm for my
taste.
http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/85274343

If I then use the remove color cast function, again using the tablecloth
I get something that is not bad, but not as good as using the raw file.
http://www.pbase.com/konascott/image/85274345

I find the remove color cast function is only of real value if it is not
making large changes in the color.

I have had pretty good using remove color cast to correct photos taken
through a windshield, which have a lot of green to them.

Scott
 >> Stay informed about: Software "filter" to remove tungsten lighting effects?