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External
Since: Sep 10, 2006
Posts: 107
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:48 pm
Post subject: Need a fast cropping workflow
Archived from groups: alt>photography, others (more info?)
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Hi, all.
I've started hand-cropping proofs for better results, but at high-volume
my current tools are killing my productivity. Most of the time isn't
spent doing the crop, but waiting for loading & saving.
Photoshop Elements 4 has worked fine for most of my "workflow" to-date
and the cropping tool is great, but slow to load & save. On average,
it's taking 25 seconds to load, crop, and save an image, which makes for
a *lot* of hours per event.
With the right tool, I know this could take less than 5 seconds per
proof. I've tried IrfanView, which is very fast to load & save files
(and is tweakable for fast save / load), but its hand cropping tool is
really unfriendly.
Is there a better tool out there for cropping workflow? I'm looking for
something very basic, but focused:
* Set a crop ratio (e.g., 3:2) (a la PSE)
* Quickly position / rotate / size the crop box (a la PSE)
* Automatically / quickly save the file after crop & load the next file
from the folder (a la IrfanView)
Any ideas? Is there a way to streamline this to be fast with PSE4 or
CS2? Even getting the files to pre-load / save in the background could
solve the PSE4 problem, though I'm probably trying to push a consumer
product too far. 
Thanks,
Richard |
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External
Since: Aug 14, 2005
Posts: 275
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Need a fast cropping workflow [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Richard H. <rh86 RemoveThis @no.spam> wrote:
> Hi, all.
>
> I've started hand-cropping proofs for better results, but at high-volume
> my current tools are killing my productivity. Most of the time isn't
> spent doing the crop, but waiting for loading & saving.
>
> Photoshop Elements 4 has worked fine for most of my "workflow" to-date
> and the cropping tool is great, but slow to load & save. On average,
> it's taking 25 seconds to load, crop, and save an image, which makes for
> a *lot* of hours per event.
>
> With the right tool, I know this could take less than 5 seconds per
> proof. I've tried IrfanView, which is very fast to load & save files
> (and is tweakable for fast save / load), but its hand cropping tool is
> really unfriendly.
>
> Is there a better tool out there for cropping workflow? I'm looking for
> something very basic, but focused:
> * Set a crop ratio (e.g., 3:2) (a la PSE)
> * Quickly position / rotate / size the crop box (a la PSE)
> * Automatically / quickly save the file after crop & load the next file
> from the folder (a la IrfanView)
>
> Any ideas? Is there a way to streamline this to be fast with PSE4 or
> CS2? Even getting the files to pre-load / save in the background could
> solve the PSE4 problem, though I'm probably trying to push a consumer
> product too far.
Open them all at the same time. Or maybe ten at a time or whatever. Then
crop and save and close. Go to the next window.
If you were making the same crop on all of them it'd be easy, but it
sounds like human interaction is required. |
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External
Since: Sep 10, 2006
Posts: 107
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Need a fast cropping workflow [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Paul Mitchum wrote:
>>Any ideas? Is there a way to streamline this to be fast with PSE4 or
>>CS2? Even getting the files to pre-load / save in the background could
>>solve the PSE4 problem, though I'm probably trying to push a consumer
>>product too far.
>
> Open them all at the same time. Or maybe ten at a time or whatever. Then
> crop and save and close. Go to the next window.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I just tried this on a set, and it was even slower. At least with this
approach, it seems that memory is an issue for PSE4. (This is a P4
3.3GHz, 1GB RAM.)
The problem is (at least with PSE4) that opening & saving isn't a
background task - nothing else can be done in the editor while that's
happening.
> If you were making the same crop on all of them it'd be easy, but it
> sounds like human interaction is required.
Exactly. Each one's unique. (Quick-cropping proof images to make them
more appealing.)
Thanks,
Richard >> Stay informed about: Need a fast cropping workflow |
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External
Since: Nov 23, 2005
Posts: 1029
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Need a fast cropping workflow [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Richard H." <rh86 DeleteThis @no.spam> writes:
> Any ideas? Is there a way to streamline this to be fast with PSE4 or
> CS2? Even getting the files to pre-load / save in the background
> could solve the PSE4 problem, though I'm probably trying to push a
> consumer product too far.
1. Use some kind of batch script to make small versions (like 640x480)
of each picture.
2. Load and crop each of those pictures with your favorite tool or
script. They should load very fast, since they're small.
3. Use another batch script to use the small crop to decide how to
crop the large version. That can run slow and unattended. >> Stay informed about: Need a fast cropping workflow |
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External
Since: Sep 10, 2006
Posts: 107
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Need a fast cropping workflow [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Paul Rubin wrote:
> 1. Use some kind of batch script to make small versions (like 640x480)
> of each picture.
>
> 2. Load and crop each of those pictures with your favorite tool or
> script. They should load very fast, since they're small.
There's an idea I should have thought of by now. During the Raw->
JPEG conversion step, I could resize to ~0.5MP and hand-crop from there.
In this case, the online proofs are only 500x333 pixels, so even 0.5MP
would give a lot of cropping latitude. It should load & save a lot
faster too.
> 3. Use another batch script to use the small crop to decide how to
> crop the large version. That can run slow and unattended.
This idea is intriguing. What tools will batch crop the high-res image
based on the cropping of the low-res version like this?
Thanks,
Richard >> Stay informed about: Need a fast cropping workflow |
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External
Since: Aug 02, 2005
Posts: 3974
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:17 am
Post subject: Re: Need a fast cropping workflow [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:48:12 -0700, Richard H. wrote:
> With the right tool, I know this could take less than 5 seconds per
> proof. I've tried IrfanView, which is very fast to load & save files
> (and is tweakable for fast save / load), but its hand cropping tool is
> really unfriendly.
I've gotten somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 seconds per, using
IrfanView to crop hundreds of images. The hand cropping tool by
default is pretty poor, especially if the crop frame is created from
scratch each time using the mouse. But if you've defined a default
Custom Crop frame size, it can be invoked as quickly as you can type
<Shift>-C <Enter>. Slightly slower if you do it through the menu
using a mouse. Then the mouse can very quickly slide the crop frame
wherever you want it, as well as make height and width adjustments,
either individually, or preserving the frame's aspect ratio. >> Stay informed about: Need a fast cropping workflow |
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External
Since: Sep 10, 2006
Posts: 107
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:17 am
Post subject: Re: Need a fast cropping workflow [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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ASAAR wrote:
> I've gotten somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 seconds per, using
> IrfanView to crop hundreds of images. The hand cropping tool by
> default is pretty poor, especially if the crop frame is created from
> scratch each time using the mouse. But if you've defined a default
> Custom Crop frame size, it can be invoked as quickly as you can type
> <Shift>-C <Enter>. Slightly slower if you do it through the menu
I can tell that IrfanView has a lot of potential here (it's really fast,
and the File | Save dialog boxes can be disabled), but the interface for
cropping is pretty painful.
By rotate, what I mean is flipping the ratio of the crop box from
portrait to landscape - how do you do this? The preset ratios don't do
anything until you edit the size fields, so it seems to require a lot of
repetitive back & forth between mouse & keyboard.
I was using a custom frame, but couldn't see how to reposition it
(right-click, drag) - that was a killer; now, at least I can make it
work. The keyboard shortcuts and ctrl+drag are workable, but will
probably drive me crazy quickly.
Still looking...
Thanks,
Richard >> Stay informed about: Need a fast cropping workflow |
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External
Since: Aug 02, 2005
Posts: 3974
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:29 am
Post subject: Re: Need a fast cropping workflow [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:48:12 -0700, Richard H. wrote:
> Is there a better tool out there for cropping workflow? I'm looking for
> something very basic, but focused:
> * Set a crop ratio (e.g., 3:2) (a la PSE)
> * Quickly position / rotate / size the crop box (a la PSE)
> * Automatically / quickly save the file after crop & load the next file
> from the folder (a la IrfanView)
I replied too quickly. I should have added that IrfanView can do
this with the exception of rotating the crop frame. A very simple
work around is also quite fast. Rotate the image first (type L or
R) and then add the crop frame. Crop, rotate once more (if
appropriate) and save. >> Stay informed about: Need a fast cropping workflow |
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External
Since: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 69
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:33 am
Post subject: Re: Need a fast cropping workflow [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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this is a nice little program, I don't know how good it is as I am new to
dig pix's, but check it out.... kk
http://ekot.dk/programmer/JPEGCrops/
"Richard H." <rh86.RemoveThis@no.spam> wrote in message
news:%H0Tg.13927$nm1.11716@fed1read04...
> Hi, all.
>
> I've started hand-cropping proofs for better results, but at high-volume
> my current tools are killing my productivity. Most of the time isn't
> spent doing the crop, but waiting for loading & saving.
>
> Photoshop Elements 4 has worked fine for most of my "workflow" to-date and
> the cropping tool is great, but slow to load & save. On average, it's
> taking 25 seconds to load, crop, and save an image, which makes for a
> *lot* of hours per event.
>
> With the right tool, I know this could take less than 5 seconds per proof.
> I've tried IrfanView, which is very fast to load & save files (and is
> tweakable for fast save / load), but its hand cropping tool is really
> unfriendly.
>
> Is there a better tool out there for cropping workflow? I'm looking for
> something very basic, but focused:
> * Set a crop ratio (e.g., 3:2) (a la PSE)
> * Quickly position / rotate / size the crop box (a la PSE)
> * Automatically / quickly save the file after crop & load the next file
> from the folder (a la IrfanView)
>
> Any ideas? Is there a way to streamline this to be fast with PSE4 or CS2?
> Even getting the files to pre-load / save in the background could solve
> the PSE4 problem, though I'm probably trying to push a consumer product
> too far.
>
> Thanks,
> Richard >> Stay informed about: Need a fast cropping workflow |
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External
Since: Sep 02, 2005
Posts: 154
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:45 am
Post subject: Re: Need a fast cropping workflow [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> Is there a better tool out there for cropping workflow? I'm looking for
> something very basic, but focused:
> * Set a crop ratio (e.g., 3:2) (a la PSE)
> * Quickly position / rotate / size the crop box (a la PSE)
> * Automatically / quickly save the file after crop & load the next file
> from the folder (a la IrfanView)
This doesn't sound like it would be terribly difficult to automate in CS2,
I don't know how PSE handles things. I'm going to record an action which
sets the crop tool to 3:2, and check it so that it will always pause and
wait for my input on the crop. Then I'm going to run it as a batch process
on a folder full of 8MP JPGs.
Alright, it opens a file, brings up a crop shield at 6x4 inches, and waits
for me to adjust it as I need. After I hit "enter" to apply the crop, it's
3 seconds or less until the next JPG is up and waiting with a fresh 6x4 crop
shield, waiting for me to do my part. That seems like it fits all of your
criteria.
Now if you're opening RAW files, processing them is inherantly slower than
processing JPGs, and that will be true regardless of which program you use.
However, you don't necessarily need to process the entire RAW data, but can
do your cropping on the embedded preview JPG - open all (well, up to 200) of
your RAW files at once in ACR, then go through and apply crops/settings/etc.
as you please, and then tell it to save them all in your format of choice at
the end, while you do something else.
steve >> Stay informed about: Need a fast cropping workflow |
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External
Since: Aug 02, 2005
Posts: 3974
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:50 am
Post subject: Re: Need a fast cropping workflow [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 23:16:39 -0700, Richard H. wrote:
> I can tell that IrfanView has a lot of potential here (it's really fast,
> and the File | Save dialog boxes can be disabled), but the interface for
> cropping is pretty painful.
>
> By rotate, what I mean is flipping the ratio of the crop box from
> portrait to landscape - how do you do this? The preset ratios don't do
> anything until you edit the size fields, so it seems to require a lot of
> repetitive back & forth between mouse & keyboard.
I answered that shortly in a second reply posted several minutes
after the initial reply. You probably read the first reply before
the second was sent off. On the off chance that the second reply
didn't make it to you, here's what was posted:
>> Is there a better tool out there for cropping workflow? I'm looking for
>> something very basic, but focused:
>> * Set a crop ratio (e.g., 3:2) (a la PSE)
>> * Quickly position / rotate / size the crop box (a la PSE)
>> * Automatically / quickly save the file after crop & load the next file
>> from the folder (a la IrfanView)
>
> I replied too quickly. I should have added that IrfanView can do
> this with the exception of rotating the crop frame. A very simple
> work around is also quite fast. Rotate the image first (type L or
> R) and then add the crop frame. Crop, rotate once more (if
> appropriate) and save. >> Stay informed about: Need a fast cropping workflow |
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External
Since: Nov 23, 2005
Posts: 1029
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:15 am
Post subject: Re: Need a fast cropping workflow [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Richard H." <rh86.RemoveThis@no.spam> writes:
> > 3. Use another batch script to use the small crop to decide how to
> > crop the large version. That can run slow and unattended.
>
> This idea is intriguing. What tools will batch crop the high-res
> image based on the cropping of the low-res version like this?
Don't know of one offhand for Windows. It wouldn't be that hard to
throw something together. Of course the crop tool would have to
record the location of the crop somehow. >> Stay informed about: Need a fast cropping workflow |
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External
Since: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 2799
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:44 am
Post subject: Re: Need a fast cropping workflow [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Richard H. wrote:
> Hi, all.
>
> I've started hand-cropping proofs for better results, but at high-volume
> my current tools are killing my productivity. Most of the time isn't
> spent doing the crop, but waiting for loading & saving.
>
> Photoshop Elements 4 has worked fine for most of my "workflow" to-date
> and the cropping tool is great, but slow to load & save. On average,
> it's taking 25 seconds to load, crop, and save an image, which makes for
> a *lot* of hours per event.
>
> With the right tool, I know this could take less than 5 seconds per
> proof. I've tried IrfanView, which is very fast to load & save files
> (and is tweakable for fast save / load), but its hand cropping tool is
> really unfriendly.
>
> Is there a better tool out there for cropping workflow? I'm looking for
> something very basic, but focused:
> * Set a crop ratio (e.g., 3:2) (a la PSE)
> * Quickly position / rotate / size the crop box (a la PSE)
> * Automatically / quickly save the file after crop & load the next file
> from the folder (a la IrfanView)
>
> Any ideas? Is there a way to streamline this to be fast with PSE4 or
> CS2? Even getting the files to pre-load / save in the background could
> solve the PSE4 problem, though I'm probably trying to push a consumer
> product too far.
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
I don't have PSE4 (only PSE3), but are you saving the pictures in .jpg
format, .tiff, or the Photoshop format? I don't notice any slow saving
as I operate almost exclusively in .jpg format. >> Stay informed about: Need a fast cropping workflow |
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External
Since: Sep 10, 2006
Posts: 107
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:12 am
Post subject: Re: Need a fast cropping workflow [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ron Hunter wrote:
> I don't have PSE4 (only PSE3), but are you saving the pictures in .jpg
> format, .tiff, or the Photoshop format? I don't notice any slow saving
> as I operate almost exclusively in .jpg format.
I'm opening from and saving as JPEG, Highest Quality (which could be
reduced for this purpose). Writing back to the same filename (a working
copy).
On a one-off basis it's not a big delay, but overall the process is
taking too long per image. Well under 10 seconds is being spent per
image on the actual crop placement, with everything else being steps to
open or save.
Thanks,
Richard >> Stay informed about: Need a fast cropping workflow |
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External
Since: Sep 10, 2006
Posts: 107
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:27 am
Post subject: Re: Need a fast cropping workflow [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Steve Wolfe wrote:
> This doesn't sound like it would be terribly difficult to automate in CS2,
> I don't know how PSE handles things. I'm going to record an action which
> sets the crop tool to 3:2, and check it so that it will always pause and
> wait for my input on the crop. Then I'm going to run it as a batch process
> on a folder full of 8MP JPGs.
>
> Alright, it opens a file, brings up a crop shield at 6x4 inches, and waits
> for me to adjust it as I need. After I hit "enter" to apply the crop, it's
> 3 seconds or less until the next JPG is up and waiting with a fresh 6x4 crop
> shield, waiting for me to do my part. That seems like it fits all of your
> criteria.
Indeed, it does! PSE does not allow for this type of scripting.
Well, this would be a good reason to upgrade to CS2. I've avoided it so
far because PSE was doing a good job of meeting my needs.
Can you tell me what the rough specs are for your system? (CPU, speed, RAM)
> Now if you're opening RAW files, processing them is inherantly slower than
> processing JPGs, and that will be true regardless of which program you use.
True. I've been doing the RAW->JPG conversion in batch separately to
avoid this conversion delay.
Thanks!
Richard >> Stay informed about: Need a fast cropping workflow |
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