Vista on the Mac (was: Computer)

rkmr15203.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Mar 14, 11:01 am, C J Campbell <christophercampb....DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> My last Windows machine finally refused to log onto the network at
>> all and won't talk to any printers. Rats. Well, it was getting
>> pretty long in the tooth and slow anyway, compared to the newer Macs.
>>
>> So yesterday I installed Vista Business on the Mac, using Parallels.
>> It seems to work fine, except there is no Vista driver for my QMS
>> Magicolor 3100 laser printer and something seems to have convinced
>> the Epson driver that the photo printer is out of ink. It will print
>> over the network, though, to the HP 7100 series all-in-one, although
>> it does not understand the scanner or the fax. OS X has none of
>> these problems.
>>
>> It would be nice to have an XPS file reader in OS X, then I wouldn't
>> have to worry about Windows' constant problems with conflicting
>> device drivers. I could just print everything in Vista to XPS and
>> then if I needed a hard copy I could print it in OS X.
>>
>> The nice thing about Parallels is that you can run Vista in Console
>> mode. Vista almost completely disappears. Every Vista window becomes
>> an OS X window. You can drag stuff from a Vista window to an OS X
>> window and back. And yet Vista is compartmentalized, so you don't
>> have to worry about any of its viruses getting into the OS X system.
>> Vista doesn't have to have access to the Internet at all except for
>> its own updates. You lose Aero, of course (otherwise it wouldn't
>> look like OS X) but it is very slick.
>>
>> The interesting thing is that Parallels manages to get Vista to run
>> in only 528 megabytes of RAM. Every application in Vista seems to
>> run just fine without disk swapping. I have not noticed any speed
>> penalty in either OS X or Vista.
>>
>> As for the keyboard and mouse, so far Vista has managed to put up
>> with the MacBook Pro's keyboard and the Bluetooth Mighty Mouse. It
>> is a little insensitive on the right click, but I think that is a
>> problem with the Mighty Mouse anyway.
>>
>> I have no intention of using any of Vista's media accessories, so I
>> have no idea how they work. I also do not have any 3D games for
>> Vista, but Parallels says they will not work. So much for MS Flight
>> Simulator X (but then, who needs a simulator when you fly real
>> airplanes whenever you want).
>>
>> --
>> Waddling Eagle
>> World Famous Flight Instructor
>
> Look up Open Office. Free, open source. Does everything you need. Have
> to play a little with X tools, but if I can do it, anyone can.

You've successfully opened Microsoft .XPS files in Open Office?

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 >> Stay informed about: Vista on the Mac (was: Computer) 

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:53:01 -0400
"J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet RemoveThis @cox.net> wrote:

> rkmr15203 RemoveThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Mar 14, 11:01 am, C J Campbell <christophercampb... RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> My last Windows machine finally refused to log onto the network at
> >> all and won't talk to any printers. Rats. Well, it was getting
> >> pretty long in the tooth and slow anyway, compared to the newer
> >> Macs.
> >>
> >> So yesterday I installed Vista Business on the Mac, using
> >> Parallels. It seems to work fine, except there is no Vista driver
> >> for my QMS Magicolor 3100 laser printer and something seems to
> >> have convinced the Epson driver that the photo printer is out of
> >> ink. It will print over the network, though, to the HP 7100 series
> >> all-in-one, although it does not understand the scanner or the
> >> fax. OS X has none of these problems.
> >>
> >> It would be nice to have an XPS file reader in OS X, then I
> >> wouldn't have to worry about Windows' constant problems with
> >> conflicting device drivers. I could just print everything in Vista
> >> to XPS and then if I needed a hard copy I could print it in OS X.
> >>
> >> The nice thing about Parallels is that you can run Vista in Console
> >> mode. Vista almost completely disappears. Every Vista window
> >> becomes an OS X window. You can drag stuff from a Vista window to
> >> an OS X window and back. And yet Vista is compartmentalized, so
> >> you don't have to worry about any of its viruses getting into the
> >> OS X system. Vista doesn't have to have access to the Internet at
> >> all except for its own updates. You lose Aero, of course
> >> (otherwise it wouldn't look like OS X) but it is very slick.
> >>
> >> The interesting thing is that Parallels manages to get Vista to run
> >> in only 528 megabytes of RAM. Every application in Vista seems to
> >> run just fine without disk swapping. I have not noticed any speed
> >> penalty in either OS X or Vista.
> >>
> >> As for the keyboard and mouse, so far Vista has managed to put up
> >> with the MacBook Pro's keyboard and the Bluetooth Mighty Mouse. It
> >> is a little insensitive on the right click, but I think that is a
> >> problem with the Mighty Mouse anyway.
> >>
> >> I have no intention of using any of Vista's media accessories, so I
> >> have no idea how they work. I also do not have any 3D games for
> >> Vista, but Parallels says they will not work. So much for MS Flight
> >> Simulator X (but then, who needs a simulator when you fly real
> >> airplanes whenever you want).
> >>
> >> --
> >> Waddling Eagle
> >> World Famous Flight Instructor
> >
> > Look up Open Office. Free, open source. Does everything you need.
> > Have to play a little with X tools, but if I can do it, anyone can.
>
> You've successfully opened Microsoft .XPS files in Open Office?
>
OpenOffice obsoletes Microsoft Office, and it's not controlled by a
monopoly. XPS is an open spec, but it has only recently become
available. Microsoft has said they have plans for non-Windows XPS
viewers, post Vista launch. The community will likely produce something
before Microsoft does. In the meantime, just avoid MS Office.

Paul Allen
 >> Stay informed about: Vista on the Mac (was: Computer) 

On 2007-03-14 15:33:04 -0700, rkmr15203 RemoveThis @yahoo.com said:

> On Mar 14, 11:01 am, C J Campbell <christophercampb... RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> My last Windows machine finally refused to log onto the network at all
>> and won't talk to any printers. Rats. Well, it was getting pretty long
>> in the tooth and slow anyway, compared to the newer Macs.
>>
>> So yesterday I installed Vista Business on the Mac, using Parallels. It
>> seems to work fine, except there is no Vista driver for my QMS
>> Magicolor 3100 laser printer and something seems to have convinced the
>> Epson driver that the photo printer is out of ink. It will print over
>> the network, though, to the HP 7100 series all-in-one, although it does
>> not understand the scanner or the fax. OS X has none of these problems.
>>
>> It would be nice to have an XPS file reader in OS X, then I wouldn't
>> have to worry about Windows' constant problems with conflicting device
>> drivers. I could just print everything in Vista to XPS and then if I
>> needed a hard copy I could print it in OS X.
>>
>> The nice thing about Parallels is that you can run Vista in Console
>> mode. Vista almost completely disappears. Every Vista window becomes an
>> OS X window. You can drag stuff from a Vista window to an OS X window
>> and back. And yet Vista is compartmentalized, so you don't have to
>> worry about any of its viruses getting into the OS X system. Vista
>> doesn't have to have access to the Internet at all except for its own
>> updates. You lose Aero, of course (otherwise it wouldn't look like OS
>> X) but it is very slick.
>>
>> The interesting thing is that Parallels manages to get Vista to run in
>> only 528 megabytes of RAM. Every application in Vista seems to run just
>> fine without disk swapping. I have not noticed any speed penalty in
>> either OS X or Vista.
>>
>> As for the keyboard and mouse, so far Vista has managed to put up with
>> the MacBook Pro's keyboard and the Bluetooth Mighty Mouse. It is a
>> little insensitive on the right click, but I think that is a problem
>> with the Mighty Mouse anyway.
>>
>> I have no intention of using any of Vista's media accessories, so I
>> have no idea how they work. I also do not have any 3D games for Vista,
>> but Parallels says they will not work. So much for MS Flight Simulator
>> X (but then, who needs a simulator when you fly real airplanes whenever
>> you want).
>>
>> --
>> Waddling Eagle
>> World Famous Flight Instructor
>
> Look up Open Office. Free, open source. Does everything you need. Have
> to play a little with X tools, but if I can do it, anyone can.

What I want is a way to print from Vista. I do not run Microsoft Office
in Vista -- I already have it for OS X, thanks.

However, any application in Vista can print to an XPS file, similar to
printing to PDF. I just don't have an OS X application (yet) that reads
the resulting XPS files.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
 >> Stay informed about: Vista on the Mac (was: Computer) 

To cut to the chase: I think you have serious misconceptions about how both
the Apple and Windows OSes work and what Parallels can and cannot do. Many
Mac users have similar misunderstandings.
Presumably the reason you need to run Windows is that some program or
peripheral you need does not exist in the closed Apple world. Vista is
actually worse than Apple with regard to a lack of drivers and compatible
programs at this point in the Vista life cycle, rendering Vista as useless
for most people as the Apple OS.
One reason Apple users have less, but not zero, device driver conflicts is
because of the monopoly control Apple exerts and the static/moribund nature
of driver development for the Apple platform. Since Apple users have a
limited choice of hardware/software and there is not the pressure to improve
performance, as in the more competitive Wintel platform (mostly driven by
gamers) new drivers rarely appear that might cause conflicts. Is lack of
progress/diversity a good thing? Caveat emptor.
Virus writers rarely attack the Apple platform because it is just too small
a market segment and no large businesses run on Apple software. Last month
Apple reportedly released about 40 fixes to vulnerabilities in the Mactel
OS. Steve Jobs knows something many Mac users choose to ignore.
Despite your assertion objective testing of Parallels, which is a very
impressive feat of software engineering, shows that running any version of
Windows virtualized is far slower than running the OS directly. Parallels
slows both the Mactel and virtual Windows OS: it can't not slow the system
as it uses every available resource and divides them between OSes. Why you
would choose Vista Business, loaded with networking and security features
that are useless as a virutalized OS, is beyond me. I also suspect that
virtualzation of the OS is the reason why the Epson status monitor does not
work. The Epson status monitor is not even reliable on computers networked
under one OS.
If you need to run Windows for particular hardware and the drivers exist in
XP the answer to your problem is pretty clear.
 >> Stay informed about: Vista on the Mac (was: Computer) 

On 2007-03-15 11:52:31 -0700, "nsag" <fac DeleteThis @hotmail.com> said:

> To cut to the chase: I think you have serious misconceptions about how
> both the Apple and Windows OSes work and what Parallels can and cannot
> do. Many Mac users have similar misunderstandings.

To cut to the chase: I suspect you have never used a Mac running OS X,
yet you pretend to be expert on what a Mac can and cannot do.

> Presumably the reason you need to run Windows is that some program or
> peripheral you need does not exist in the closed Apple world. Vista is
> actually worse than Apple with regard to a lack of drivers and
> compatible programs at this point in the Vista life cycle, rendering
> Vista as useless for most people as the Apple OS.

Actually, the reason I run OS X is because some peripherals and
software are unavailable in the Windows world. However, you are
correct, you cannot prepare a corporate tax return in OS X unless you
use web-based software. Not only that, you cannot update your aviation
database for your Garmin 430 GPS system in OS X. You can barely do it
in Windows XP and you probably can't do it in Vista, either. That task
requires a Sandisk card reader that is no longer manufactured and
clunky software from Jeppesen. It runs best under Windows 95.

Um, let's see: I can't run Jeppesen FliteStar under either OS X or
Vista. Actually, Jeppesen's insistance on supporting only obsolete
operating systems has driven most pilots to using on-line services such
as AirNav.

So that is it: only two applications that have to be run under Windows,
only one of which will run in Vista. Big whoop. For that, I get no
support for *any* of my peripherals. Which was my point.

> One reason Apple users have less, but not zero, device driver conflicts
> is because of the monopoly control Apple exerts and the static/moribund
> nature of driver development for the Apple platform. Since Apple users
> have a limited choice of hardware/software and there is not the
> pressure to improve performance, as in the more competitive Wintel
> platform (mostly driven by gamers) new drivers rarely appear that might
> cause conflicts. Is lack of progress/diversity a good thing? Caveat
> emptor.

Most new peripherals have OS X drivers. Where do you get the idea that
driver development is static or moribund?

> Virus writers rarely attack the Apple platform because it is just too
> small a market segment and no large businesses run on Apple software.
> Last month Apple reportedly released about 40 fixes to vulnerabilities
> in the Mactel OS.

Really? They did not show up on Software Update.

Virus writers attack all kinds of platforms that have smaller market
segments than Apple. Please, your assertion is baloney, tiresome, and
idiotic.

> Steve Jobs knows something many Mac users choose to ignore.
> Despite your assertion objective testing of Parallels, which is a very
> impressive feat of software engineering, shows that running any version
> of Windows virtualized is far slower than running the OS directly.
> Parallels slows both the Mactel and virtual Windows OS: it can't not
> slow the system as it uses every available resource and divides them
> between OSes. Why you would choose Vista Business, loaded with
> networking and security features that are useless as a virutalized OS,
> is beyond me. I also suspect that virtualzation of the OS is the reason
> why the Epson status monitor does not work. The Epson status monitor is
> not even reliable on computers networked under one OS.

Okay, you got me. I said it was not much slower. Most reviewers say
that for practical purposes it is not a lot slower. It isn't.
Apparently your idea of what a lot slower is, is different than mine.

Most people use computers for tasks other than running benchmarks, just
as they use cameras for things other than taking pictures of test
patterns. In the real world, Parallels does not slow down your
computer. Even if it did, it would only slow it down when running.
Since the number of tasks that need to be performed in Windows is
vanishingly small, that would be very little time indeed.

> If you need to run Windows for particular hardware and the drivers
> exist in XP the answer to your problem is pretty clear.

I chose Vista Business because it was available. Vista Home and Vista
Home Premium will not install under Parallels because of Microsoft
licensing restrictions, so the only other choices are Enterprise,
Business, or Ultimate. Windows XP costs the same as Windows Vista
Business.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
 >> Stay informed about: Vista on the Mac (was: Computer) 

In article <PBgKh.7294$Um6.5094@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, nsag
<fac.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Why you
> would choose Vista Business, loaded with networking and security features
> that are useless as a virutalized OS, is beyond me.

Because Microsoft REQUIRES that you do so.

As for the rest of your post... Well, speaking as a systems engineer
trained and certified on both platforms - you're about 80% dead wrong.
The other 20% is distortion that make the rest plausible to the
uninformed.
 >> Stay informed about: Vista on the Mac (was: Computer) 

On 2007-03-15 14:21:19 -0700, Scott Schuckert <not.TakeThisOut@aol.com> said:

> In article <PBgKh.7294$Um6.5094@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, nsag
> <fac.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Why you
>> would choose Vista Business, loaded with networking and security features
>> that are useless as a virutalized OS, is beyond me.
>
> Because Microsoft REQUIRES that you do so.
>
> As for the rest of your post... Well, speaking as a systems engineer
> trained and certified on both platforms - you're about 80% dead wrong.
> The other 20% is distortion that make the rest plausible to the
> uninformed.

You had to love his "the more competitive Wintel platform (mostly
driven by gamers)." Yep, the whole computer biz revolves around games.
Who'd a-thunk-it? And nobody competes with Apple except Apple.

Bet that's quite a surprise to most software companies. Even Microsoft
writes software for the Mac. And whatever will little guys like Adobe
ever do unless they start catering to the gamers?

Wintel, eh? Somebody forget to tell him that Macs use Intel processors
nowadays? This guy has never seriously used a Mac running OS X. And he
knows nothing about the software business.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
 >> Stay informed about: Vista on the Mac (was: Computer) 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Vista on the Mac (was: Computer) 

Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:

> Paul Allen wrote:
>
>> OpenOffice obsoletes Microsoft Office, and it's not controlled by a
>> monopoly. XPS is an open spec, but it has only recently become
>> available. Microsoft has said they have plans for non-Windows XPS
>> viewers, post Vista launch. The community will likely produce
>> something before Microsoft does. In the meantime, just avoid MS
>> Office.
>
>
> Wrong! You won't find OpenOffice on a single federal government or
> corporate desktop due to incompatibility issues. I'm sure there are
> some struggling backwoods townships that will use it for interoffice
> work only. Professionals only use Microsoft Office.

WRONG. You will find OpenOffice on *MY* (federal government) desktop
computer. Works just fine. And I am a professional, using both MS
Office and OpenOffice interchangeably.

Jim

>
>
>
>
>
>
> Rita
>
 >> Stay informed about: Vista on the Mac (was: Computer) 

Scott Schuckert wrote:
> In article <PBgKh.7294$Um6.5094@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, nsag
> <fac RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Why you
>> would choose Vista Business, loaded with networking and security
>> features that are useless as a virutalized OS, is beyond me.
>
> Because Microsoft REQUIRES that you do so.

????? Somebody from Microsoft forced you at gunpoint? I'm sorry, but
shouting "requires" without explaining the nature of the compulsion just
makes you look hysterical. Are you talking about the licensing
limitation? If so, did you _try_ to activate from the virtual session?

> As for the rest of your post... Well, speaking as a systems engineer
> trained and certified on both platforms - you're about 80% dead wrong.
> The other 20% is distortion that make the rest plausible to the
> uninformed.

If he's 80 percent dead wrong please demonstrate his errors. If you
have Microsoft and Apple "certifications" you really shouldn't brag
about it.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 >> Stay informed about: Vista on the Mac (was: Computer) 

On 2007-03-15 15:36:56 -0700, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.usenet.TakeThisOut@cox.net> said:

> Scott Schuckert wrote:
>> In article <PBgKh.7294$Um6.5094@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net>, nsag
>> <fac.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Why you
>>> would choose Vista Business, loaded with networking and security
>>> features that are useless as a virutalized OS, is beyond me.
>>
>> Because Microsoft REQUIRES that you do so.
>
> ????? Somebody from Microsoft forced you at gunpoint? I'm sorry, but
> shouting "requires" without explaining the nature of the compulsion just
> makes you look hysterical. Are you talking about the licensing
> limitation? If so, did you _try_ to activate from the virtual session?
>
>> As for the rest of your post... Well, speaking as a systems engineer
>> trained and certified on both platforms - you're about 80% dead wrong.
>> The other 20% is distortion that make the rest plausible to the
>> uninformed.
>
> If he's 80 percent dead wrong please demonstrate his errors. If you
> have Microsoft and Apple "certifications" you really shouldn't brag
> about it.
>
> --

Shuckert is, in fact, almost 100% dead wrong.

He starts off by presuming to know what I know and do not know, and the
reasons that I do things. A bit presumptious, that, and he was wrong.

He then asserts that the fewer driver conflicts are because of Apple's
monopoly control and "the static/moribund nature of development for the
Apple platform." Demonstrably wrong. Most new products have OS X
drivers. New drivers are being developed all the time. It is neither
static nor moribund, nor does Apple maintain a monopoly control. There
are even fewer drivers available for Vista, yet they have many more
conflicts. It is especially silly to assert that Apple has a monopoly
control compared to Microsoft. So again, he was wrong. He asserts lack
of progress on the Apple platform. If I recall correctly, Apple has
released several new operating systems in the time it took Microsoft to
release Vista, and Apple is about to release a new one. Apple's
computers are generally regarded as state of the art. So he is wrong
there, too.

He makes the extremely ridiculous assertion that the competitive Wintel
market is driven by gamers. Dead wrong.

He asserts that virus writers simply do not attack Apple because of
small market share. Yet virus writers manage to find the time to attack
even smaller systems. So he is batting zero here. He asserts that Apple
released 40 fixes to vulnerabilities in the Mactel OS. Bet he has a
tough time coming up with that list. Still batting zero.

He asserts that Steve Jobs knows things that Mac users choose to
ignore. Riiiiiiight. He would know this how? He sure hasn't paid any
visits to any Apple forums lately.

He asserts that Parallels slows down both the Mactel and Windows OS. I
did not dispute that, but I said it was not significant. He thinks it
is, so call it a tie. Still not quite right.

He suspects that virtualization of the OS is the reason the Epson
status monitor doesn't work. He might be right, but this guy hasn't got
a clue, let alone a suspicion.

So, tell me. What did he get right? Nothing? Well, there you have it.
Of course, you are about 100% wrong when you spout off about the Mac,
too. You are just gasping at any straw, hoping to find someone who will
support your ridiculous theories. You know nothing about it, yet you
continually pretend expertise. Is that honest?

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
 >> Stay informed about: Vista on the Mac (was: Computer) 

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 17:47:54 -0500
Rita Ä Berkowitz <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com> wrote:

> Paul Allen wrote:
>
> > OpenOffice obsoletes Microsoft Office, and it's not controlled by a
> > monopoly. XPS is an open spec, but it has only recently become
> > available. Microsoft has said they have plans for non-Windows XPS
> > viewers, post Vista launch. The community will likely produce
> > something before Microsoft does. In the meantime, just avoid MS
> > Office.
>
> Wrong!

Huh? With the exception of my opinion on how soon the community will
produce an XPS reader, everything I said is factually correct.

> You won't find OpenOffice on a single federal government or
> corporate desktop

Absolute statements like this one are almost always mistaken.

> due to incompatibility issues.

Incompatibility with what? The monopoly platform? That's the way the
monopoly likes it. You don't have compatibility issues if you use
an open standard.

> I'm sure there are
> some struggling backwoods townships that will use it for interoffice
> work only. Professionals only use Microsoft Office.

Another absolute statement that can be refuted by a single counter-
example. I'm a professional and I mostly use Open Office for
collaborating with my Windows-using colleagues.

Paul Allen
 >> Stay informed about: Vista on the Mac (was: Computer) 

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:21:06 -0700, C J Campbell wrote:

> Shuckert is, in fact, almost 100% dead wrong.

It's almost a 100% certainty that Scott Schuckert is not the
person that you're assuming to be 100% dead wrong.
 >> Stay informed about: Vista on the Mac (was: Computer)