Viewfinders on DSLR's

"nospam" <nospam.DeleteThis@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:210520081528134895%nospam@nospam.invalid...
> In article <par8341r45578eqq0ji35v4kutvgss24uc.DeleteThis@4ax.com>, Jürgen Exner
> <jurgenex.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >or do you have to go to the lcd display?
>>
>> Wouldn't do you any good because almost no DSLRs have what is called
>> 'live preview'.
>
> actually quite a few do. nikon, canon, sony and olympus all have at
> least two models each. pentax's depth of field preview actually takes
> a photo without writing it to the card and displays it. not exactly
> live view, but it's not the traditional dof preview either.

Pentax DSLR's can do optical DOF as discussed in this thread, or digital
preview, you choose.
 >> Stay informed about: Viewfinders on DSLR's 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Viewfinders on DSLR's 

In article <483560bc$0$12915$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, Yoshi
<dreamstwice RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> Geeeze... go buy a book on photography and read it. All these noob
> questions are annoying.

These retards that insist on looking at a little TV. You've already got
a live preview. It's called the viewfinder.
 >> Stay informed about: Viewfinders on DSLR's 

dosferatu wrote:

>
> "m II" <c DeleteThis @in.the.hat> wrote in message news:NofZj.4356$KB3.4278@edtnps91...
>> Jeff R. wrote:
>>
>>> Apologies.
>>> I was being deliberately obtuse.
>>
>>
>> Obtuse? Wouldn't that depend on the angle of the 'reflex' ?
>
> that's acute answer.

Right!

--
Blinky
Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
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 >> Stay informed about: Viewfinders on DSLR's 

In article <g14boe$2491$1@energise.enta.net>, Steve B says...

> Pentax sell a x1.2 viewfinder magnifier. With that on, my K100D VF is a
> fair bit larger than a full frame Canon 5D VF. They are all rubbish though
> compared with an old Pentax KM film SLR I still have which is like going to
> the cinema compared with a TV.

Rubbish compared to what? APS DLSRs or full frame DSLRs? What exactly is
the problem - lack of a split screen focus perhaps?
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
 >> Stay informed about: Viewfinders on DSLR's 

"Alfred Molon" <alfred_molon DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.22a000ea5366147698bc6f@news.supernews.com...
> In article <g14boe$2491$1@energise.enta.net>, Steve B says...
>
>> Pentax sell a x1.2 viewfinder magnifier. With that on, my K100D VF is a
>> fair bit larger than a full frame Canon 5D VF. They are all rubbish
>> though
>> compared with an old Pentax KM film SLR I still have which is like going
>> to
>> the cinema compared with a TV.
>
> Rubbish compared to what? APS DLSRs or full frame DSLRs? What exactly is
> the problem - lack of a split screen focus perhaps?
> --
>
> Alfred Molon
> ------------------------------
> Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
> http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site

APS-C and full frame DSLR viewfinders are all rubbish as in very small
compared with old film SLR viewfinders, at least the few I've used many
moons ago, one of which I still have, the Pentax KM.
 >> Stay informed about: Viewfinders on DSLR's 

In article <g14ov1$2s4p$1@energise.enta.net>, Steve B says...
>
>
> APS-C and full frame DSLR viewfinders are all rubbish as in very small
> compared with old film SLR viewfinders, at least the few I've used many
> moons ago, one of which I still have, the Pentax KM.

And why would viewfinders of full-frame DSLRs which cost thousands of
Euros be so inferior? There should be enough budget for a decent
viewfinder in a camera which costs 4000 Euro.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
 >> Stay informed about: Viewfinders on DSLR's 

"Alfred Molon" <alfred_molon RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.22a011381523e3bd98bc70@news.supernews.com...
> In article <g14ov1$2s4p$1@energise.enta.net>, Steve B says...
>>
>>
>> APS-C and full frame DSLR viewfinders are all rubbish as in very small
>> compared with old film SLR viewfinders, at least the few I've used many
>> moons ago, one of which I still have, the Pentax KM.
>
> And why would viewfinders of full-frame DSLRs which cost thousands of
> Euros be so inferior? There should be enough budget for a decent
> viewfinder in a camera which costs 4000 Euro.
> --
>
No idea, it's something I've wondered about myself.
 >> Stay informed about: Viewfinders on DSLR's 

"tomm42" <tmonego.TakeThisOut@wildblue.net> wrote in message
news:63f7c9ca-377d-41ea-917a-c7a24655a93d@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On May 22, 5:22 am, Alfred Molon <alfred_mo....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> In article <U49Zj.7488$DZ6.6...@text.news.virginmedia.com>, David J
>> Taylor says...
>>
>> > Yes, if you pay more you may get a better viewfinder, but even that of
>> > the
>> > Nikon D40 is eminently usable. Try looking through the viewfinders for
>> > yourself.
>>
>> I remember briefly using a couple of years ago a Nikon D70. And wow,
>> what a viewfinder.
>> Recently I checked instead the Sony 350 and the Pentax K20D and was very
>> unimpressed. It's good that these two cameras come with live preview, so
>> you can use that for framing.
>> --
>>
>> Alfred Molon
>> ------------------------------
>> Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum
>> athttp://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/http://myolympus.org/photo
>> sharing site
>

I have a D70, and the viewfinder is its worst feature.

It is like looking down a tunnel, but eventually your brain gets used to it,
and it then seems Ok.

UNTIL you look through the VF on a more recent model, and then its back to -
"I need a new Camera"

Roy G
 >> Stay informed about: Viewfinders on DSLR's 

C J Campbell wrote:
> On 2008-05-21 10:23:52 -0700, Alfred Molon <alfred_molon.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> said:
>
>> In article <g11ehj01rdc.RemoveThis@news2.newsguy.com>, dosferatu says...
>>>
>>> Just getting into looking at DSLR's.
>>> Looking thru, anyway.
>>>
>>> So DSLR's, I assume, don't have focusing screens? Is that why looking
>>> thru
>>> the viewfinder everything is in focus?
>>> Do any DSLR's have Depth of field preview thru the viewfinder or do
>>> you have
>>> to go to the lcd display?
>>
>> What is Depth of field preview ?
>
> When you look through the viewfinder or on the LCD of a DSLR, the lens
> is wide open at its largest aperture. This allows the clearest and
> brightest view with the least depth of field for composing and focusing
> the picture. However, it does not show the actual depth of field that
> you are going to get, which can be critical.
>
> Most DSLRs have a button mounted by the lens which, if you press it,
> stops the lens down to the selected aperture. The viewfinder becomes
> darker because less light is entering the camera, but you can see what
> parts of the image will appear shop in the final shot.
>
> The depth of field preview button on my Nikon D300 does not work when
> Live View is turned on.

For live view on the D300, the "viewed" f-stop is the f-stop set when Lv
mode is entered. Changing the f-stop when the LV display is on changes
the metering for an exposure, but leaves the aperture unchanged for the
display until liveview is exited and re-entered (including by taking a
picture)
So, the DOF preview doesn't work because the aperture might already be
stopped down when entering LV mode.
Sorry if I'm explaining the self-evident. I find LV very useful for
tripod work, where you can achieve absolute critical focus using LV with
the lens set at maximum aperture, then preview DOF accurately on the LCD
by stopping down and resetting LV, checking at up to 10x view if needed.
 >> Stay informed about: Viewfinders on DSLR's 

me.TakeThisOut@mine.net wrote:
> On Thu, 22 May 2008 16:56:30 GMT, in rec.photo.digital "David J
> Taylor" <david-taylor.TakeThisOut@blueyonder.neither-this-bit.nor-this-bit.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> The gain-up feature of the electronic viewfinder makes the viewfinder
>> image brighter than the original scene under dark conditions, and
>> this can aid basic composition.
>
> Sorry, wan't thinking along those terms even though this thread is
> about viewfinders. I wasn't really impressed with my CP-5700 overall
> and have quickly forgotten any of it's pluses given all it's minuses
> as a system upgrading from a CP-990.

OK, I appreciate there was a confusion.

I moved on from the Nikon 5700 to a Panasonic FZ5 and was very pleased
with it, but now in low-light I am better equipped with my DSLR, even if I
can't see what I'm taking as well!

Cheers,
David
 >> Stay informed about: Viewfinders on DSLR's 

In article <MPG.229ea5fa477744a298bc5e.RemoveThis@news.supernews.com>, Alfred Molon
<alfred_molon.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> writes
>In article <g11n97$f90$1@energise.enta.net>, Steve B says...
>>
>> > What is Depth of field preview ?
>> >
>> Press the DOF preview button and the aperture goes from wide open, as used
>> for focusing and framing the shot, to your selected aperture. The VF will
>> now 'preview' what's really in focus/not in focus at that aperture and focal
>> length. The main problem is that it will get dark in the VF at small
>> apertures.
>
>Oops... and there are DSLRs which cannot do this?

Actually, most dSLRs on the market today cannot do this, at least they
cannot do it with any accuracy, unlike the SLRs of old.

> I thought it's a basic
>feature of DSLRs that they will show you in the viewfinder what is in
>focus and what is not in focus. How else otherwise could you creatively
>compose the shot by choosing the right amount of background blur?
>
That is/was the basic principle. However, to get an accurate view of
what is in and out of focus at the shooting aperture you need to have a
highly diffusing screen - a coarse ground glass screen. The downside of
that is that the viewfinder image is very dark, because light from the
lens is scattered pretty much uniformly in all directions and only a
small proportion of that reaches the eyepiece. Without a ground glass
screen, all of the light reaches the eyepiece, at least within a certain
field of view of the image, resulting in a bright image but now
everything appears in focus. SLR viewfinder design has always been a
compromise between the two conflicting requirements of a bright image
and accurate DoF preview. There is only so much light that comes
through the lens, and it can't do everything.

In the old days (pre-1990), the tradeoff was made towards the accurate
DoF representation. However, since AF became more common on SLRs, the
tradeoff has shifted towards the brighter image, because the viewfinder
is no longer used for focussing. As a consequence of the demand for
brighter SLR viewfinders, DoF preview accuracy has reduced, to the point
where it is very misleading these days in almost all SLRs, and pretty
useless in many. The actual DoF is always much less than appears in the
viewfinder with modern cameras - unless they have interchangeable focus
screens and one is available that has been optimised for manual focus.


--
Kennedy
Yes, Socrates himself is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed.
Python Philosophers (replace 'nospam' with 'kennedym' when replying)
 >> Stay informed about: Viewfinders on DSLR's 

"Blinky the Shark" <no.spam DeleteThis @box.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.05.23.03.37.05.301691@thurston.blinkynet.net...
> dosferatu wrote:
>
>>
>> "m II" <c DeleteThis @in.the.hat> wrote in message
>> news:NofZj.4356$KB3.4278@edtnps91...
>>> Jeff R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> Apologies.
>>>> I was being deliberately obtuse.
>>>
>>>
>>> Obtuse? Wouldn't that depend on the angle of the 'reflex' ?
>>
>> that's acute answer.
>
> Right!


Oh please. I am not used to this degree of abuse.

--
Jeff R
 >> Stay informed about: Viewfinders on DSLR's