Sensor dust Nikon D80

Nospam wrote:
> Hi,
>
> just getting my head around digital SLRs.
>
> As the D80 has a mechanical shutter, would this not prevent ant dust
> getting onto the sensor while the lens is being changed.
>
> or can the dust 'get' around the side of the shutter mechanism?

The shutter remains open when the lens is removed.
 >> Stay informed about: Sensor dust Nikon D80 

In article <Vpbhj.34627$JD.13858@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net>, Paul
Furman <paul-.DeleteThis@-edgehill.net> wrote:

> The shutter remains open when the lens is removed.

um, no it doesn't.

however, dust will eventually get on the sensor, at which point you
activate the mirror lock up mode (for cleaning, not shooting) and give
a blast of air from a rocket blower (*not* a pressurized can of air).
that should dislodge most instances of dust.
 >> Stay informed about: Sensor dust Nikon D80 

nospam wrote:
> In article <Vpbhj.34627$JD.13858@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net>, Paul
> Furman <paul- RemoveThis @-edgehill.net> wrote:
>
>> The shutter remains open when the lens is removed.
>
> um, no it doesn't.
>
> however, dust will eventually get on the sensor, at which point you
> activate the mirror lock up mode (for cleaning, not shooting) and give
> a blast of air from a rocket blower (*not* a pressurized can of air).
> that should dislodge most instances of dust.

I guess so, anyways you can never see the shutter, it's behind the
mirror and when the whole mirror box gets dust in it, that flutters
around when the mirror flips. Perhaps a curtain in front that which
closed when removing a lens would help.
 >> Stay informed about: Sensor dust Nikon D80 

In article <GSbhj.38130$Pv2.12537@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>,
Paul Furman <paul- DeleteThis @-edgehill.net> wrote:

> nospam wrote:
> > In article <Vpbhj.34627$JD.13858@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net>, Paul
> > Furman <paul- DeleteThis @-edgehill.net> wrote:
> >
> >> The shutter remains open when the lens is removed.
> >
> > um, no it doesn't.
> >
> > however, dust will eventually get on the sensor, at which point you
> > activate the mirror lock up mode (for cleaning, not shooting) and give
> > a blast of air from a rocket blower (*not* a pressurized can of air).
> > that should dislodge most instances of dust.
>
> I guess so, anyways you can never see the shutter, it's behind the
> mirror and when the whole mirror box gets dust in it, that flutters
> around when the mirror flips. Perhaps a curtain in front that which
> closed when removing a lens would help.

Best tip I've gotten so far with my D80 is: hold body pointing down
while changing lenses.

I'm already careful and try to avoid lens changes in dusty or windy
conditions, protect the lenses' rear elements while they're exposed,
etc.--I learned that stuff with film cameras--but the digital sensor
with its static charge situation makes me even more cautious. I also use
an aluminum case most of the time, as I found that (for me at least)
fabric or leather camera bags seem to be dust magnets.
--
"It is the individual alone who is timeless. The individual's
hungers, anxieties, dreams, and preoccupations have remained
unchanged throughout the millennia." Eric Hoffer (1902-1983)
 >> Stay informed about: Sensor dust Nikon D80 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Sensor dust Nikon D80 

In article <13oaq6li4teh32c.DeleteThis@news.supernews.com>,
Jim Townsend <not.DeleteThis@real.address> wrote:

> Tully wrote:
>
> >--but the digital sensor
> > with its static charge situation makes me even more cautious.
>
> What static charge?

I can't quote you technical data like the number of coulombs per micron,
but I was told a sensor has a static attraction for dust that is greater
than a mirror does, and I believe it. Film moving through a camera
acquires a static charge, and it doesn't have voltage applied directly
to it.
--
"It is the individual alone who is timeless. The individual's
hungers, anxieties, dreams, and preoccupations have remained
unchanged throughout the millennia." Eric Hoffer (1902-1983)
 >> Stay informed about: Sensor dust Nikon D80 

"nospam" <nospam.RemoveThis@nospam.invalid> wrote
news:090120081408335979%nospam@nospam.invalid...
>
>...................................................
>
> however, dust will eventually get on the sensor, at which point you
> activate the mirror lock up mode (for cleaning, not shooting) and give
> a blast of air from a rocket blower (*not* a pressurized can of air).
> that should dislodge most instances of dust.

Been there, done exactly that and indeed it works like a charm.
One caveat though: the camera looks for a fully charged battery before going
into mirror-up mode.
 >> Stay informed about: Sensor dust Nikon D80 

Paul Furman <paul-.TakeThisOut@-edgehill.net> wrote:
>Nospam wrote:
>> As the D80 has a mechanical shutter, would this not prevent ant dust
>> getting onto the sensor while the lens is being changed.
>>
>> or can the dust 'get' around the side of the shutter mechanism?
>
>The shutter remains open when the lens is removed.

Aehmm, no.
But the shutter opens when a picture is taken, if there was dust in the
mirror box from changing lenses, then this dust may get disturbed by the
mirror, pass the shutter, and get onto the sensor.

jue
 >> Stay informed about: Sensor dust Nikon D80 

Chris Malcolm <cam RemoveThis @holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>Floyd L. Davidson <floyd RemoveThis @apaflo.com> wrote:
>> Jim Townsend <not RemoveThis @real.address> wrote:
>>>Tully wrote:
>>>
>>>>--but the digital sensor
>>>> with its static charge situation makes me even more cautious.
>>>
>>>What static charge?
>
>> The sensor is a electronic device, and when energized
>> has a very significant static charge, which attracts
>> dust particles in the air close to it.
>
>Checking sources of information on the web about this I find that many
>of them are misinformed and get the science wrong. I checked because
>just on first principles this sounds improbable. The voltages involved
>in dust attraction are very high voltage static charges, whereas those
>involved in the operation of a digital camera sensor are very
>low.

It isn't just high voltage circuits that have static
charge problems. A low voltage circuit that transfers
static charge to a very well insulated (and thus low
leakage) collector will allow the accumulation of
significant charge.

Keep in mind that something as apparently benign as
rubbing two pieces of paper together can generate such a
charge... And that virtually any high quality insulator
in a dry atmosphere will 1) accumulate a charge, and 2)
collect dust from the atmosphere as a result of that
charge.

>That's why you get dust attracted to the surface of a CRT screen,
>but not to the terminal of a torch battery.

Actually the difference is that the surface of a CRT
screen is well insulated while the terminals of a
battery are usually connected to conductors that drain
off and disperse any static charge instantly.

>What is more, operability
>at the low voltages at which camera sensors work implies a
>conductivity which would not permit the development of dust attracting
>static charges.

I don't follow that reasoning? There is no implication
of higher conductivity with low voltages.

>There could be a dust attracting static charge involved, but it could
>not be due to the low voltage electronic operation of the sensor. It

Why not?

>could be due to some kind of transparent protective coating. However,

The coating itself does nothing except perhaps act as a
very good insulator, which is one of the two
requirements for a static build up (the other being a
source of charge).

>the problems of static dust attraction in optical coatings are so well
>known to engineers, and so many ways are known of minimising these
>effects, that I'd be surprised if this was the case.

I'm not personally familiar with "problems of static
dust attraction in optical coatings", so I can't speak
to that.

>As far as I know
>the camera sensor is protected by a glass screen, and that is what
>gets dirty and needs to be cleaned. I can't see why an optical glass
>screen should suffer any more from static problems than do your camera
>lenses.

The camera lenses don't have a source of charge, other
than interaction with dry air. And indeed, that is
certainly enough to cause them to attract dust if the
air is dry.

>What is more, I note that some DSLR makers use various sensor
>vibration cleaning methods which they claim help to keep their sensors
>dust free. These would not operate in the presence of electrical
>static attraction.

That would be correct. The sensor is not energized when
the cleaning mechanism of operating.

>Nor would the special brushes that use static
>charged bristles to attract the dust, since they would transfer charge
>to the sensor and make things worse.

Hmmm... I'm not sure that is true or false. Might be!
Interesting thought. But regardless, the point is to
clean the sensor when it is *not* charged.

>But these are just educated guesses on my part, and I could easily be
>wrong. Do you have any good sources of information on this? I note for
>example that Wikipedia contains more superstition than science on this
>topic.

I hadn't looked at Wikipedia before. I found this
article, and thought it was pretty good, though it only
has two references and the first one is of questionable
value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_reduction_system

Where is the superstition you saw?

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd RemoveThis @apaflo.com
 >> Stay informed about: Sensor dust Nikon D80 

On Jan 9, 4:37 pm, Nospam <nos... RemoveThis @nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> just getting my head around digital SLRs.
>
> As the D80 has a mechanical shutter, would this not prevent ant dust
> getting onto the sensor while the lens is being changed.
>
> or can the dust 'get' around the side of the shutter mechanism?
>
> thanks
>
> --
> Nospam


It is funny some folks don't seem bothered by dust, I have cleaned my
AA filter (you don't clean the sensor) three times in the two years I
have had my D200, have heard others reporting the same thing. While
others are plagued with dust. I don't ignore the situation, I shoot
primes (one zoom) and change lenses a lot and don't do anything
special when I am changing lenses. I have shot multiple lenses in the
US southwest and on beaches, but mostly I am in the northeast US. I am
a wide angle, everything in focus sort of shooter, not a wide apeture
how's the boke sort so I like small apertures. So I should be seeing
more dust, right?
Is it the lenses people use, is it environmental, I tend to think
lenses, maybe poorly constructed kit lenses or pump type zooms, don't
know, just happy a rocket blow every 6 months or so seems to do the
trick. After each of this type of post I tend to go out and shoot some
sky at f22, mostly I don't see dust.

Tom
 >> Stay informed about: Sensor dust Nikon D80 

gpaleo wrote:

> "nospam" <nospam RemoveThis @nospam.invalid> wrote
> news:090120081408335979%nospam@nospam.invalid...
> >
> >...................................................
> >
> > however, dust will eventually get on the sensor, at which point you
> > activate the mirror lock up mode (for cleaning, not shooting) and
> > give a blast of air from a rocket blower (*not* a pressurized can
> > of air). that should dislodge most instances of dust.
>
> Been there, done exactly that and indeed it works like a charm.
> One caveat though: the camera looks for a fully charged battery
> before going into mirror-up mode.

A day late maybe, but my brand new D80 with firmware version 1.01 will
go into lock up mode when the battery charge is at least as low as 74%
(I just tried it).

I don't know what definition other models and/or firmware revisions use
for "fully charged", but for me at least it seems to be a bit less than
"fully".
 >> Stay informed about: Sensor dust Nikon D80 

In article
<266b7afe-5e73-4b44-9be7-9d7dd6411308 DeleteThis @k39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
tomm42 <tmonego DeleteThis @wildblue.net> wrote:

> On Jan 9, 4:37 pm, Nospam <nos... DeleteThis @nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > just getting my head around digital SLRs.
> >
> > As the D80 has a mechanical shutter, would this not prevent ant dust
> > getting onto the sensor while the lens is being changed.
> >
> > or can the dust 'get' around the side of the shutter mechanism?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > --
> > Nospam
>
>
> It is funny some folks don't seem bothered by dust, I have cleaned my
> AA filter (you don't clean the sensor) three times in the two years I
> have had my D200, have heard others reporting the same thing. While
> others are plagued with dust. I don't ignore the situation, I shoot
> primes (one zoom) and change lenses a lot and don't do anything
> special when I am changing lenses. I have shot multiple lenses in the
> US southwest and on beaches, but mostly I am in the northeast US. I am
> a wide angle, everything in focus sort of shooter, not a wide apeture
> how's the boke sort so I like small apertures. So I should be seeing
> more dust, right?
> Is it the lenses people use, is it environmental, I tend to think
> lenses, maybe poorly constructed kit lenses or pump type zooms, don't
> know, just happy a rocket blow every 6 months or so seems to do the
> trick. After each of this type of post I tend to go out and shoot some
> sky at f22, mostly I don't see dust.
>
> Tom

When you say "cleaned," are you referring to this sort of thing?

http://www.cleaningdigitalcameras.com/index.html

I ask because, although I have air-dusted one of my D80 bodies one time,
I will not be attempting any alcohol-and-swab procedures ever, and
that's why it's worth the extra effort to prevent dust in the first
place. I also consider the reduction in number of lens changes a bonus
gained by use of two bodies. Not a big factor in the decision to buy two
D80s rather than one D200, but a benefit nonetheless.

As for the comment about "poorly constructed kit lenses or pump type
zooms," I would expect that to introduce dust between lens elements
rather than inside the camera body, no?
--
"It is the individual alone who is timeless. The individual's
hungers, anxieties, dreams, and preoccupations have remained
unchanged throughout the millennia." Eric Hoffer (1902-1983)
 >> Stay informed about: Sensor dust Nikon D80 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Sensor dust Nikon D80