Reluctant Wedding Photographer

C J Campbell wrote:
> On 2007-11-05 09:59:12 -0800, "Juan Moore Beer"
> <juanmoorebeer DeleteThis @yahoo.com> said:
>
>> My niece has asked me to be her wedding photographer, and it is giving me
>> nightmares.
>>
>> You know the screnario, two very young kids, in love and in trouble, and
>> are getting married on a very tight budget.
>>
>> I visited her father last weekend, and she saw a handful of photos I took
>> throughout the weekend and decided I was her man.
>>
>> Under the circumstances, there is no possibility of refusing, and I would
>> only want to because I doubt my ability to make it special.
>>
>> As you may know from my very few posts here I am new to the digital
>> arena,
>> and my film experience is severely limited and dated.
>>
>> I think I know the very basics about what to take with me, (Extra
>> batteries, memory, etc.) but would appreciate any free advice.
>>
>> My very short list of available equipment is as follows:
>> Cameras:
>> Canon D400
>> Canon Rebel G (I would probably not take this, unles someone convinces me
>> otherwise)
>
> Take it. It is insurance against Murphy's law.
>
>
>> Lenses:
>> 18-55
>> 55-200 (From the old Rebel G)
>
> The best lens is a mid-range zoom, so probably the kit lens or the 18-55
> will work best.
>
>> Kit lense from the rebel G (I forget exactly what that is at the moment)
>> Flash
>
> Take as many extra batteries as you can lift. Take a flash diffuser if
> you have one. Always use bounce flash.
>
>> Canon 430EX
>> Tripods (One large and one mini.)
>>
>> Is there anything I absolutely must have besides what is listed here?
>
> 90% of wedding photography is attitude. The people are there to have a
> good time -- one of the best days of their lives. Your personal mission
> is to see that not only does that happen, but that they will have
> pictures to remember it by.
>
> Go with a plan: Know exactly what shots you will take. The list of exact
> photos that you will take is called your repertoire. Go over it
> thoroughly with the bride and groom as far in advance as possible.

To expand on this a bit, have a list on an index card so that you don't
forget any biggies. The site below has an 18-page wedding planner guide;
page 12 is all about photography, including a list of "standard" shots.
If you go to the bride/planner beforehand to discuss which shots are
important, they will feel more confident in you - no matter how your
photos end up! Just never say "I don't know what I'm doing." It's just
like how wearing a jacket and tie leads to more confidence at work. Act
the part and you'll be the part.

http://www.premierbride.com/planning/pb_plan_weddlist.html
 >> Stay informed about: Reluctant Wedding Photographer 

Thank you all for the great information. I will try to absorb as much of
it as I can and (hopefully) will give a very special girl the wedding
present she deserves.

Many of your posts have helped me to understand the value of the
professional.

This will be more like a party than a formal reception. Many traditional
wedding arrangements will be foregone for the day. The feast will be
prepared by family members for family, with other guests being welcomed
later. (I do not know how that will flow, but I Will try to be prepared).

Circumstances prevent me from being at the rehearsal, so I will not be
able to take that good advice, but I will try to arrive at the church
hours ahead of time and see what I can do. If I have to sit in the
parking lot, maybe I can read my camera manual and figure out what some of
those little buttons and knobs do ;^)

My hope is that the scale of this event will allow me to adequately record
it without negatively impacting on the memory.

I can't thank you enough. The response has been overwhelming.

-------- 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
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> The ring picture - professionals try to avoid photographing the backs
> of hands. It's artistically unpleasing
>
> The windowlight bride - all of that light making her chest the
> brightest spot in the photograph. Again...education goes a long way.
>

See, you CAN post some helpful advise, even if it's written in a negative
way.
Can't you just understand and accept the OPs situation and give him the
benefit of some of your experience?


> I never said I was. But I know good photographs from bad.
>
>> I know you are more than likely just some idiot troll, and I'm only
>> making things worse by replying to you, but your constant sniping
>> throughout this thread has really p'd me off and I just had to
>> respond.
>
> Maybe you should go to some professional wedding photography seminars
> with this guy and maybe you'd learn something too.

To the layman (ie me) those photos looked fine! Maybe from a professional
point of view, some of the 'rules' have been broken, but if I was the groom,
I'd certainly far rather have had those pictures than nothing at all!
As far as a photography seminar, are you offering to run one? I'm always
happy to learn! What I don't like is people who just spout critisism and
negativity without offering anything useful or constructive.

--
Regards,
Chris.
(Remove Elvis's shoes to email me)
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In article <au2dnaMSfcoLEK3anZ2dnUVZ8s2mnZ2d.RemoveThis@bt.com>, ChrisM
<chris_mayersblue.RemoveThis@suedeyahoo.com> wrote:

> To the layman (ie me) those photos looked fine! Maybe from a professional
> point of view, some of the 'rules' have been broken, but if I was the groom,
> I'd certainly far rather have had those pictures than nothing at all!
> As far as a photography seminar, are you offering to run one? I'm always
> happy to learn! What I don't like is people who just spout critisism and
> negativity without offering anything useful or constructive.

I could do one. Are you planning to fly up here?

My recommendation would be the old master of weddings, Monte Zucker.
But if a person learns the basics of professional portraiture, the
principles are the same.
 >> Stay informed about: Reluctant Wedding Photographer 

In article <1194365687.380989.218370 RemoveThis @o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> This is the only piece of your advice I would question. For a novice
> wedding photographer it is easier to photograph the guests as they
> arrive at the church in dribs and drabs rather than having to herd
> them en mass into photogenic groups afterwards (and for that get the
> ushers to help). It presupposes there is somewhere suitable to take
> these photos in the churchyard.

Who takes the formals after the ceremony? I guess it's OK if you like
tracking down all the people who are in a hurry to get drunk and don't
mind that the bride & groom look haggard.
 >> Stay informed about: Reluctant Wedding Photographer 

The camera is good. The flash is adequate. The lenses are mediocre but
that's what you have so they will have to do. I suggest getting a flip
bracket and remote cable for the flash to move it farther away from the lens
and orient it properly for portrait shots. Use the flash for every shot. You
want to control the lighting as much as possible. You will need an assistant
to carry your stuff and to hold the light reflector that you will also need.
Get a 5 in 1 reflector from ebay and practice with it. They are great for
filling in shadows on sunny days. Search ebay for "5 in 1". Narrow your
search to "Lighting & Studio Equipment". You should also consider making a
better bounce card for diffuse flash lighting.
http://www.abetterbouncecard.com/
Watch the video. It's a bit long but good. You can buy the foam board he
talks about at some dollar stores. Make a few of them. On one bounce card,
instead of cutting the top 2" off, I folded it over at a 45 degree angle and
stapled it. I use that if there is no ceiling to bounce from. Read, read,
read. There are lots of sites full of tips. Then practice, practice
practice. Good Luck. You will be very busy but you can take great artistic
pride in the finished product.

Marten


> Canon D400
> Canon Rebel G (I would probably not take this, unles someone convinces me
> otherwise)
> Lenses:
> 18-55
> 55-200 (From the old Rebel G)
> Kit lense from the rebel G (I forget exactly what that is at the moment)
> Flash
> Canon 430EX
> Tripods (One large and one mini.)
>
> Is there anything I absolutely must have besides what is listed here?
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Dan
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
>
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Martin Brown said:
--
>This is the only piece of your advice I would question. For a novice
>wedding photographer it is easier to photograph the guests as they
>arrive at the church in dribs and drabs rather than having to herd
>them en mass into photogenic groups afterwards (and for that get the
>ushers to help). It presupposes there is somewhere suitable to take
>these photos in the churchyard.
--

That is never done, I don't care what level Photographer you are.
The Bride and her Limo are usually only a few minutes away from walking
inside and you only have a few minutes to grab a shot of the Groom and Best
Man while he's still a single M8. You must hustle for this one. You must
get into your spot at this point to shoot the Groom at the Alter while he's
waiting for his Bride, and the Bride when she is escorted down the Isle.
There will be enough time to do candids of the guests later. The Family
Formals are done at the Reception. The caterer is setting up for something
and you can grab some people during the cocktail hour. Ask the Caterer when
you can grab people. He will appreciate it and if you work around each
others plan of attack you wont have a problem with conflicts. This is
probably the most important advice you could follow.

What I meant to say about following the Bride. Is when she is on the Move
with the Limo going from place to place to never loose site of her limo.
You never know what comes up in that car and anything worth shooting will be
missed if you head over to the Religious Ceremony without her. Shots like
that are the very rare ones and shouldn't be missed. If your running late
(when your with the Bride), its the Bride and no ones going to argue. LOL
Stay with her like glue no matter what.

Again, as far as shooting the guests at the church. There for your
background only. You can get some shots of the guests during the Reception
Line and in the background for all of your shots. Your main job is shooting
the Bridal Party at the Ceremony and that also includes who is giving the
Bride away as well as her escorts down the Isle and the other important
people that will be escorted down the Isle. You wont have much time and
every thing will be done as fast as can be done. You wont have time to play
before the Ceremony itself and you have to be prepared by your location.
You don't want to miss something important because your shooting a minor
guest when the Main Subjects are the ones that are most important to you.
The focus is of the Main Families and not everybody at the Affair at this
time unless asked by your main subjects. You can't loose site of why your
there, you are there to be the Brides Personal Photographer. She is
accompanied by the Groom and Bridal Party, and the Grooms and Brides
parents/family. They are your main subjects first.......... Someone greets
the Bride or Groom and you will have an automatic shot/s of the other
guests.

Not4wood


"Martin Brown" <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1194365687.380989.218370@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 6, 5:36 am, "Not4wood" <no_mgottes DeleteThis @spam_verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> So far you have received some very good information. I would like to
>> repeat
>> and go over a couple of things.
>>
>> As far as shooting in RAW. Its a great idea but if you do you will need
>> about twice as many mem cards as you thought you would. Also, you will
>> need
>> to go thru every shot and convert them. If you work in RAW, then you
>> know
>> what your doing. If you've never worked in RAW before, now is not the
>> time
>> to find out.
>
> Same goes for buying or hiring any exotic new kit. Use the stuff you
> are already very familiar with. Although you might want to buy (and
> test) several extra memory cards and a spare battery or several.
>
> Even a point and shoot can be useful as an insurance policy against
> possible hardware problems on the day. Better to have some shots on
> inferior gear than nothing at all.
>
> The other slightly hairy thing about weddings is that there tends to
> be a huge dynamic range between the brides white dress and the grooms
> black trousers. The dress detail is more imporant than his pants so it
> is worth exposure bracketting on important shots to get the highlights
> exactly right. Raw would give you a bit more exposure latitude, but it
> is slower, adds to the workload and uses a fair bit more memory for
> every shot.
>
>> Go to and look around at the place of the ceremony. Talk to the people
>> who
>> will be officiating and ask about what you can and can NOT do. If you
>> notice any kind of nice area to shoot your bride ask first.
>>
>> Stay with the Bride at all times. If she gets lost in her Limo, you
>> follow
>> as well. The Wedding cant go on without the Bride, follow that car and
>> never leave the Brides site at any time.
>
> This is the only piece of your advice I would question. For a novice
> wedding photographer it is easier to photograph the guests as they
> arrive at the church in dribs and drabs rather than having to herd
> them en mass into photogenic groups afterwards (and for that get the
> ushers to help). It presupposes there is somewhere suitable to take
> these photos in the churchyard.
>
> I can take large group photos only if someone else chases people into
> position. YMMV.
>
> And watch out for vicar or bride with tree growing out of their head.
> It is all to easy to do...
>
>> Only bring your big tripod, forget the small one.
>
> If you have a spare of anything that might be useful it is worth
> having it in the car provided space isn't a problem. Murphys Law has a
> habit of striking at the most inconvenient moment.
>
>> Good luck, and if your lucky you can get someone as a second set of eyes
>> and
>> also to help carry all of your stuff. Them, you should pay. You, your
>> nuts
>> to take this whole job on for a favor and not get paid for your trouble.
>
> A second backup photographer is a good idea if you know someone
> willing to do it. I have done this on request for several friends
> weddings, but have so far always managed to avoid doing it for real as
> main photographer.
>
>> Good luck, and most of all have fun. Let us know if you take it and how
>> it
>> goes.
>
> Yes. Good luck!
>
> Regards,
> Martin Brown
>
 >> Stay informed about: Reluctant Wedding Photographer 

Mr. Strat wrote:
> My recommendation would be the old master of weddings, Monte Zucker.
> But if a person learns the basics of professional portraiture, the
> principles are the same.

That would be a great recommendation had Zucker not DIED earlier this
year. Don't you read newspapers?
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In article <rKmdnYnQGob0f63anZ2dnUVZ_vHinZ2d.DeleteThis@speakeasy.net>, Cynicor
<j...tru.p..in.DeleteThis@sp.eake.a.sy.net> wrote:

> That would be a great recommendation had Zucker not DIED earlier this
> year. Don't you read newspapers?

I didn't know that he died. Too bad. But there are plenty of other good
wedding photogs out there. As I said, learning the principles of
professional portraiture goes a long way.
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In article <g82405xi4l.ln2 RemoveThis @recgroups.com>,
"Juan Moore Beer" <juanmoorebeer RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> I think I know the very basics about what to take with me, (Extra
> batteries, memory, etc.) but would appreciate any free advice.

In April this year I was in the same predicament. Fortunately the
bride was not too demanding as it was her (and the groom's)
second time at the altar. The pictures were mainly for her
parents since the 7 sibs were rarely together in one place long
enough to take a picture. Things were pretty laid back, they just
wanted to get married, not stage a media extravaganza. If your
niece wants a wedding album that'll rival Charles and Di's, tell
her your not up to it unless you're sure you are.

A mutual friend, also an amateur photographer, was also on the
guest list and agreed to be a backup to me. It also helped a lot
that another friend on the guest list had done professional
wedding photography years ago and agreed to be my coach.

A second photographer will get shots that you don't. You can't be
everywhere.

Don't make things too different from your normal practices. You
don't want to learn a different way of shooting at the wedding,
stick with your normal practices as much as possible. I assume
they work or you wouldn't have been asked.

I'm not an experienced flash photographer so I didn't use a
flash during the service. That means I needed a fast lens. You're
not shooting race cars so if you take enough shots some of them
will work and some won't. If your comfortable with flash
photography then consider using it. Ask the minister what is
acceptable.

I lucked out in that the bride didn't wear white. She also knows
how to use Photoshop.

I stood at the back of the church with a 70-200mm f2.8 on a
tripod and got about 2 dozen good shots of the service. You can
stage nearly everything else afterwards.

I normally shoot landscapes so one thing I learned, that seems
obvious now, is that in a group shot, if a person can't see the
lens, they won't be recognizable in the picture (at least by
face). It took about 4 group shots before I realized that all the
arranging that my retired professional photog friend was doing
was to get people in positions where their faces would show up in
the picture.

I'm going over the their house this weekend for dinner and to
work on the groom's model RR. About the only thing that's changed
is that I can't ask her out

--
Fred Lotte
flotte RemoveThis @nospam.stratos.net
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In article <flotte-38B84E.19092106112007 RemoveThis @sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Fred Lotte <flotte RemoveThis @nospam.stratos.net> wrote:

> I'm not an experienced flash photographer so I didn't use a
> flash during the service. That means I needed a fast lens. You're
> not shooting race cars so if you take enough shots some of them
> will work and some won't. If your comfortable with flash
> photography then consider using it. Ask the minister what is
> acceptable.

Using flash during the ceremony is a big no-no regardless of the venue.
I did available light shots during the ceremony for years using a
Hasselblad, tripod, and ASA 100 film. And stay out of the church during
the ceremony. There's nothing more disruptive and unprofessional than
some dork walking around taking pictures and intruding on what is
supposed to be a sacred event.
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On 2007-11-06 13:36:24 -0800, "Mr. Strat" <rag.DeleteThis@nospam.techline.com> said:

> In article <1194365687.380989.218370.DeleteThis@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> This is the only piece of your advice I would question. For a novice
>> wedding photographer it is easier to photograph the guests as they
>> arrive at the church in dribs and drabs rather than having to herd
>> them en mass into photogenic groups afterwards (and for that get the
>> ushers to help). It presupposes there is somewhere suitable to take
>> these photos in the churchyard.
>
> Who takes the formals after the ceremony? I guess it's OK if you like
> tracking down all the people who are in a hurry to get drunk and don't
> mind that the bride & groom look haggard.

I don't think there will be many formals at this particular wedding, if
any at all.

We are talking one step above handing everyone a disposable camera
here. Nothing wrong with that; not everyone wants a $15,000 photo
package of their wedding. Believe it or not, some people do not measure
the quality of their wedding by how much they spent on the photos.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
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On Nov 6, 9:36 pm, "Mr. Strat" <r....TakeThisOut@nospam.techline.com> wrote:
> In article <1194365687.380989.218....TakeThisOut@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Martin Brown <|||newspam...@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > This is the only piece of your advice I would question. For a novice
> > wedding photographer it is easier to photograph the guests as they
> > arrive at the church in dribs and drabs rather than having to herd
> > them en mass into photogenic groups afterwards (and for that get the
> > ushers to help). It presupposes there is somewhere suitable to take
> > these photos in the churchyard.
>
> Who takes the formals after the ceremony? I guess it's OK if you like
> tracking down all the people who are in a hurry to get drunk and don't
> mind that the bride & groom look haggard.

I think you are trolling. In the UK I can't recall ever being at a
wedding where formal family photographs were taken before the ceremony
(with the possible exception of a few staged ones of the bride getting
dressed). The bulk of the shots are either done in the churchyard
afterwards, or if the weather and/or location is unsuitable in a local
park, village green or the grounds at the reception.

I have been to quite a few weddings where most of the guests, groom &
best man, ushers etc. were photographed before the event as they
arrived at the church. Helps pass the time. I guess SOP must be
different in the USA.

I have also seen the odd wedding in a fierce gale where the brides
train had to be weighted down with the loose change from everyones
pockets. And another in the pooring rain where the bride and groom
escaped to the car under a guard of honour of golf umbrellas held by
the guests. Made a nice colourful photo on a dull day. In my village
there is a tradition that the newlyweds have to cut their way out
through a ribbon barrier erected across the lych gate after throwing
coins to the local children. Farmers are always expected to carry a
pocket knife.

Worth looking out for any unusual opportunities like this that may
arise.

Regards,
Martin Brown
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