Reluctant Wedding Photographer

In article <z9SXi.3463$gD4.1366@newsfe23.lga>, Chris W
<1qazse4 RemoveThis @cox.net> wrote:

> Anyone who read your post, has even the most basic understanding of the
> human condition, and was willing and able to give you advice, would have
> done just that.
>
> Mr Strat, may or may not be a good photographer, I don't know and I
> don't care. What I do know is that either he didn't read your post,
> can't read, or is simply an inept clueless moron. In any case, he is
> clearly the one who needs to get a clue.

Yeah, I read it the first time. I think Clint Eastwood said it best -
"A man's got to know his limitations."

Unfortunately, too many people in photography don't.
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Mr. Strat wrote:
> In article <z9SXi.3463$gD4.1366@newsfe23.lga>, Chris W
> <1qazse4 RemoveThis @cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Anyone who read your post, has even the most basic understanding of the
>> human condition, and was willing and able to give you advice, would have
>> done just that.
>>
>> Mr Strat, may or may not be a good photographer, I don't know and I
>> don't care. What I do know is that either he didn't read your post,
>> can't read, or is simply an inept clueless moron. In any case, he is
>> clearly the one who needs to get a clue.
>
> Yeah, I read it the first time. I think Clint Eastwood said it best -
> "A man's got to know his limitations."

The OP clearly knows his limitations far better than you know yours.


--
Chris W
KE5GIX

"Protect your digital freedom and privacy, eliminate DRM,
learn more at http://www.defectivebydesign.org/what_is_drm"

Ham Radio Repeater Database.
http://hrrdb.com
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Juan Moore Beer wrote:
> These photos will not be of a quality that some of you take for
> granted and I suspect you would find the final product to be
> laughable. I will miss a lot of important moments, but the photos
> will be taken with as much care as I am able to understand between
> now and then, and they will be taken with the love an Uncle has for a
> terrific niece in need.

I salute you! I takes guts to stand up like this and speak out against the
madness of "the perfect day". It seems indeed that people forgot what that
day is about. It is not about the most expensive rings or the largest number
of guests or the most elaborate gown. After all there is no law against
wedding in jeans and t-shirt with photos taken with a cell phone. Although I
have to admit that it's probably a better idea to dress up a little bit and
bring a real camera.

I am sure with your love as an uncle you will be much more important to her
than a famous photographer charging 5000$ could ever be.

jue
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Juan,

Dont even think of listening to the Troll Strat. He means you absolutely no
good and is just wasting Newsgroup bandwidth. Dont believe anything this
one says, and anybody that will tell you how professional they are is
actually trying to convince themselves.

Anybody that is worth anything here will be giving you professional
insightful information without sarcastic comments.

So far you have received some very good information. I would like to repeat
and go over a couple of things.

As far as shooting in RAW. Its a great idea but if you do you will need
about twice as many mem cards as you thought you would. Also, you will need
to go thru every shot and convert them. If you work in RAW, then you know
what your doing. If you've never worked in RAW before, now is not the time
to find out.

Go to and look around at the place of the ceremony. Talk to the people who
will be officiating and ask about what you can and can NOT do. If you
notice any kind of nice area to shoot your bride ask first.

Remember, depending on the Religion you might be spending as much as 6 to a
12 Hour day. I would say, get a battery charger if you can instead of
carrying all of the batteries around.
Stay with the Bride at all times. If she gets lost in her Limo, you follow
as well. The Wedding cant go on without the Bride, follow that car and
never leave the Brides site at any time.

A fast run down of what to expect:
You will be starting at the Brides house to shoot the Bride maybe getting
dressed. Maids of Honor, Parents etc.
There was a comment on when shooting the Bride and her mother to try to make
them look like models. Good idea, but also put the Maid/Matron of Honor in
the mix as well They will be with you for a good part of the day.
Maybe a small park for the Female Bridal Party just for a few fast shots and
then off to the ceremony..
At the best time, you will shoot the Groom and his best man right before the
Ceremony.
Religious Ceremony and then the Reception Line.
A small park for the whole Bridal Party.
Now you will end up at the Main Affair and your work is first getting
started.

Only bring your big tripod, forget the small one.
Bring a small step ladder with only about two steps, and hit a sewing or
cloth/material store and pick up a dark color as a drop cloth to throw over
the small step ladder and you can use it as a small posing stool on the
move. Good for the Bride with all the girls in the Bridal Party around her.
We used to use it all the time.
Also, you will need it to shoot the large dance groups during the party.
You dont want to stand on chairs and get the caterer annoyed at you.

Good luck, and if your lucky you can get someone as a second set of eyes and
also to help carry all of your stuff. Them, you should pay. You, your nuts
to take this whole job on for a favor and not get paid for your trouble. A
Photographer who has never shot a Wedding will be in for a very big
surprise. Keep your eyes open, look for any spot that might be good Photo
Op.

Now, after all of the above info. The best advice I could give you, is
"Drum Roll Please". Dont take on the whole job. Only tell them you will
take some formals of the certain groups.

Bridal Party: Maid of Honor and the Best Man. Bride and Groom and the whole
group together.
Brides Parents.
Groom Parents.

Anything else after that you tell them you will refuse to do it that you
cant be responsible for a job this big. What happens if something goes
wrong and your camera fails? Or the Bride Doesnt like the shots you took?
You never know what they think its supposed to be or what they picture in
there head. You dont want to loose friends in the process.

I think one person tried to give you a hint by telling you to take your
Flash off of your camera and use a bracket. This is a must, almost as much
as bringing enough memory cards and the camera itself. When I did do
weddings we used two Flashes. The one off to the side was the Main and the
one on the camera was a fill.

Make sure your car has a full tank of gas before you start out.

Good luck and dont forget to use good judgment and be as Professional as you
can at all times. No drinking alcohol at any time if you do take on the
whole job. You must be a little pushy to get your shots, not obnoxious but
as the Official Photographer you are an agent of the Bride and doing
everything you can in her best interest.

Good luck, and most of all have fun. Let us know if you take it and how it
goes.


Notwood

"Juan Moore Beer" <juanmoorebeer DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1og405xksl.ln2@recgroups.com...
> On Nov 5 2007 3:04 PM, Mr. Strat wrote:
>
>> In article <g82405xi4l.ln2 DeleteThis @recgroups.com>, Juan Moore Beer
>> <juanmoorebeer DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I think I know the very basics about what to take with me, (Extra
>> > batteries, memory, etc.) but would appreciate any free advice.
>>
>> A clue would be helpful.
>
> That is what I am hoping for. I tried to explain that I did not have one.
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
>
 >> Stay informed about: Reluctant Wedding Photographer 

As I now seem to be tech support for my wife's new wedding photography
business, I get to hear stories about spectacular equipment failures.

Bring the Rebel as a backup. Bring any duplicate equipment as
backup. Better yet find a friend or family member, give them the
backup and have them play too. You might get some good pictures from
them and if you have equipment problems your backup stuff is there
ready to use.

Also lighting at weddings is typically poor, especially receptions.
Experiment before hand so you know how high an ISO you can tolerate
and how DOF is affected by large aperatures.

-Brian
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In article <LY2dnQX9S_530a3aRVnyjwA.RemoveThis@bt.com>, ChrisM
<chris_mayersblue.RemoveThis@suedeyahoo.com> wrote:

> If you've got nothing helpful to say, why don't you go and take your
> stinking negative attitude somewhere else?

The ring picture - professionals try to avoid photographing the backs
of hands. It's artistically unpleasing

The windowlight bride - all of that light making her chest the
brightest spot in the photograph. Again...education goes a long way.

> Ok, so maybe you ARE the greatest wedding photographer that ever lived (and
> maybe you ain't).

I never said I was. But I know good photographs from bad.

> I know you are more than likely just some idiot troll, and I'm only making
> things worse by replying to you, but your constant sniping throughout this
> thread has really p'd me off and I just had to respond.

Maybe you should go to some professional wedding photography seminars
with this guy and maybe you'd learn something too.
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On 2007-11-05 09:59:12 -0800, "Juan Moore Beer" <juanmoorebeer.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> said:

> My niece has asked me to be her wedding photographer, and it is giving me
> nightmares.
>
> You know the screnario, two very young kids, in love and in trouble, and
> are getting married on a very tight budget.
>
> I visited her father last weekend, and she saw a handful of photos I took
> throughout the weekend and decided I was her man.
>
> Under the circumstances, there is no possibility of refusing, and I would
> only want to because I doubt my ability to make it special.
>
> As you may know from my very few posts here I am new to the digital arena,
> and my film experience is severely limited and dated.
>
> I think I know the very basics about what to take with me, (Extra
> batteries, memory, etc.) but would appreciate any free advice.
>
> My very short list of available equipment is as follows:
> Cameras:
> Canon D400
> Canon Rebel G (I would probably not take this, unles someone convinces me
> otherwise)

Take it. It is insurance against Murphy's law.


> Lenses:
> 18-55
> 55-200 (From the old Rebel G)

The best lens is a mid-range zoom, so probably the kit lens or the
18-55 will work best.

> Kit lense from the rebel G (I forget exactly what that is at the moment)
> Flash

Take as many extra batteries as you can lift. Take a flash diffuser if
you have one. Always use bounce flash.

> Canon 430EX
> Tripods (One large and one mini.)
>
> Is there anything I absolutely must have besides what is listed here?

90% of wedding photography is attitude. The people are there to have a
good time -- one of the best days of their lives. Your personal mission
is to see that not only does that happen, but that they will have
pictures to remember it by.

Go with a plan: Know exactly what shots you will take. The list of
exact photos that you will take is called your repertoire. Go over it
thoroughly with the bride and groom as far in advance as possible.
Spend about twice as much time on the bride as you do on the groom. At
a minimum, you will want:

1) Bride getting ready for the wedding, with relatives and attendants
assisting. This is where you get the bride looking in the mirror, the
bride putting on her garter, the mother adjusting the bride's dress,
etc.
2) Bride getting out of the car at the wedding.
3) Groom getting out of the car at the wedding.
4) Photograph of the church. What is fun is photographing the interior
of the church, merging it with the exterior so that it looks like your
out in front of the building and the exterior wall is invisible.
Somewhat transparent portraits of bride and groom above the building
looking down on it round out the picture.
5) Procession and ceremony. Tricky. Some churches do not allow interior
photography and you might not be able to get any pictures of these at
all. Meet with the clergyman before the wedding and get his advice. He
has seen all kinds of photographers and weddings. But if pictures are
allowed, pick your angle and stick with it while remaining as
unobtrusive as possible. Procession and ceremony close-ups can be posed
before or after the fact, if necessary.
6) Family group shots after the ceremony. Start with the largest groups
and work smaller. That way you do not have to waste time rounding up
people who have wandered off waiting for the next shot. Photograph
anyone who has started celebrating early (the family drunk) as quickly
as possible before he becomes unpresentable and/or belligerent. At a
minimum you want: all relatives, bride and groom with their immediate
families, bride and groom with her family, bride and groom with his
family, bride with siblings, groom with siblings, bride with maids,
groom with men, bride and groom with both sets of parents, bride and
groom with each set of parents, bride with parents, bride with mother,
bride with father, groom with parents. End up with just bride and groom
-- most people will wander off about this time and you will have about
half an hour to work with just the couple. Scout the area in advance
and check out good photo locations.
7) Don't cut off feet or other appendages. It marks you as an amateur.
Bride and groom leaving the church. You can be sneaky with this.
After the family group shots you want the family and guests to leave so
you can work with the bride and groom alone. So you pile the bride and
groom in the car as if they are on their way to the reception (don't
forget pictures of them in the car) and have them drive around the
block back to the church. Everyone else will leave and you will have
the place and the couple to yourself.
9) Bride and groom in favorite scenic spots, such as parks or whatever.
This is the time for "the barefoot bride walking along garden path
carrying her shoes" picture (weather permitting, of course).
10) Arrival at the reception.
11) Reception candids. Try to be sure that you get everybody at least once.
12) Bride and groom departing reception.
13) Formal portraits of bride and groom against plain background
(before or after the wedding).

Feel free to eat the food at the reception. Dance. Do not drink. Follow
all the rules that Cynicor gave you. Look for interesting reflections
and juxtapositions, such as the bride and groom looking at wedding
portraits of their parents.



>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Dan
>
> _______________________________________________________________________ 
> : the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com


--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
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On 2007-11-05 16:51:56 -0800, "Mr. Strat" <rag RemoveThis @nospam.techline.com> said:

> In article <1og405xksl.ln2 RemoveThis @recgroups.com>, Juan Moore Beer
> <juanmoorebeer RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> That is what I am hoping for. I tried to explain that I did not have one.
>
> Then you should be a guest instead of *the* photographer.

The mark of the professional is being willing to teach.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
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On 2007-11-05 21:19:44 -0800, "Mr. Strat" <rag.RemoveThis@nospam.techline.com> said:

> In article <4s1505xjum.ln2.RemoveThis@recgroups.com>, Juan Moore Beer
> <juanmoorebeer.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> You got a problem with that?
>
> I've got a problem with unqualified people photographing
> once-in-a-lifetime events. I've seen way too many instances where
> they've screwed it up.

Then help him become qualified.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
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On Nov 6, 5:36 am, "Not4wood" <no_mgottes DeleteThis @spam_verizon.net> wrote:

> So far you have received some very good information. I would like to repeat
> and go over a couple of things.
>
> As far as shooting in RAW. Its a great idea but if you do you will need
> about twice as many mem cards as you thought you would. Also, you will need
> to go thru every shot and convert them. If you work in RAW, then you know
> what your doing. If you've never worked in RAW before, now is not the time
> to find out.

Same goes for buying or hiring any exotic new kit. Use the stuff you
are already very familiar with. Although you might want to buy (and
test) several extra memory cards and a spare battery or several.

Even a point and shoot can be useful as an insurance policy against
possible hardware problems on the day. Better to have some shots on
inferior gear than nothing at all.

The other slightly hairy thing about weddings is that there tends to
be a huge dynamic range between the brides white dress and the grooms
black trousers. The dress detail is more imporant than his pants so it
is worth exposure bracketting on important shots to get the highlights
exactly right. Raw would give you a bit more exposure latitude, but it
is slower, adds to the workload and uses a fair bit more memory for
every shot.

> Go to and look around at the place of the ceremony. Talk to the people who
> will be officiating and ask about what you can and can NOT do. If you
> notice any kind of nice area to shoot your bride ask first.
>
> Stay with the Bride at all times. If she gets lost in her Limo, you follow
> as well. The Wedding cant go on without the Bride, follow that car and
> never leave the Brides site at any time.

This is the only piece of your advice I would question. For a novice
wedding photographer it is easier to photograph the guests as they
arrive at the church in dribs and drabs rather than having to herd
them en mass into photogenic groups afterwards (and for that get the
ushers to help). It presupposes there is somewhere suitable to take
these photos in the churchyard.

I can take large group photos only if someone else chases people into
position. YMMV.

And watch out for vicar or bride with tree growing out of their head.
It is all to easy to do...

> Only bring your big tripod, forget the small one.

If you have a spare of anything that might be useful it is worth
having it in the car provided space isn't a problem. Murphys Law has a
habit of striking at the most inconvenient moment.

> Good luck, and if your lucky you can get someone as a second set of eyes and
> also to help carry all of your stuff. Them, you should pay. You, your nuts
> to take this whole job on for a favor and not get paid for your trouble.

A second backup photographer is a good idea if you know someone
willing to do it. I have done this on request for several friends
weddings, but have so far always managed to avoid doing it for real as
main photographer.

> Good luck, and most of all have fun. Let us know if you take it and how it
> goes.

Yes. Good luck!

Regards,
Martin Brown
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"Mr. Strat" <rag.RemoveThis@nospam.techline.com> writes:

> In article <4s1505xjum.ln2.RemoveThis@recgroups.com>, Juan Moore Beer
> <juanmoorebeer.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > You got a problem with that?
>
> I've got a problem with unqualified people photographing
> once-in-a-lifetime events. I've seen way too many instances where
> they've screwed it up.

And the alternative is no pictures at all.

The OP realizes he is over his head, that's why he is asking for advice.

--
Michael Meissner
email: mrmnews.RemoveThis@the-meissners.org
http://www.the-meissners.org
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On 11/5/07 10:34 PM, in article z9SXi.3463$gD4.1366@newsfe23.lga, "Chris W"
<1qazse4 RemoveThis @cox.net> wrote:

>
>
> Juan Moore Beer wrote:
>
>> I don't get it. I tried to explain the circumstances surrounding this
>> wedding, then even agreed with you after your little slam to my very
>> honest request.
>
> Anyone who read your post, has even the most basic understanding of the
> human condition, and was willing and able to give you advice, would have
> done just that.
>
> Mr Strat, may or may not be a good photographer, I don't know and I
> don't care. What I do know is that either he didn't read your post,
> can't read, or is simply an inept clueless moron. In any case, he is
> clearly the one who needs to get a clue.
>
Naw. He's just a bored old fart who is an a-hole in several newsgroups. Best
to ignore that troll and he will go away.
 >> Stay informed about: Reluctant Wedding Photographer 

Chris W wrote:
>
>
> Juan Moore Beer wrote:
>
>> I don't get it. I tried to explain the circumstances surrounding this
>> wedding, then even agreed with you after your little slam to my very
>> honest request.
>
> Anyone who read your post, has even the most basic understanding of the
> human condition, and was willing and able to give you advice, would have
> done just that.
>
> Mr Strat, may or may not be a good photographer, I don't know and I
> don't care. What I do know is that either he didn't read your post,
> can't read, or is simply an inept clueless moron. In any case, he is
> clearly the one who needs to get a clue.
>
>
I would like to add this: I didn't see "Mr. Strat's" post, which means
that he is in my killfile and apparently for good reason. Sadly, my
killfile for this group is larger that the sum of those for all the
other twelve groups I read. Many sickos among the healthy here, and
anyone seeking advice would benefit from realizing that.
Allen
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