Reformatting the XD picture card

On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 22:10:15 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
<photos.digital DeleteThis @dudley-hanks.com> wrote:

>
>"baily" <none DeleteThis @000.com> wrote in message
>news:126145_80f5c489f0088f38e4dc4fe6270f7481@digiforumz.com...
>> hello there
>>
>> I am new to digital cameras, and have not long bought my first one,
>> its a fugifilm/finepix/a510...its just a starter camera
>>
>> Reading in the manual, could anyone tell me what this actually means
>>
>> When taking pictures using an XD picture card or internal memory that
>> has been used on a PC "reformat" the XD picture card or internal
>> memory,
>> using your camera for best quality
>>
>> I use the computer alot to transfer pictures, but once they are of the
>> camera, i just start taking them again.
>>
>> Not sure about this reformatting the picture card, and how to do it.
>> Should i be going to the "set up" menu on the camera and selecting
>> FORMAT > then clicking OK to erase all data, is this what reformatting
>> is
>>
>>
>> i am using a windows xp PC
>>
>> Thanks everybody
>Yep, that's how you reformat.
>
>But, you only need to reformat if you, for some reason, used your PC to
>format the card before putting it into your camera.
>
>If you've just used your PC to download and store your pics, reformatting
>isn't necesary.
>
I understand its a good idea to periodically reformat
_using_the_camera_ .



Eric Stevens
 >> Stay informed about: Reformatting the XD picture card 

"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens.TakeThisOut@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
news:e5fsg4hbokaf1a8cjc5knv4cvo53h9o1l7@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 22:10:15 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
> <photos.digital.TakeThisOut@dudley-hanks.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"baily" <none.TakeThisOut@000.com> wrote in message
>>news:126145_80f5c489f0088f38e4dc4fe6270f7481@digiforumz.com...
>>> hello there
>>>
>>> I am new to digital cameras, and have not long bought my first one,
>>> its a fugifilm/finepix/a510...its just a starter camera
>>>
>>> Reading in the manual, could anyone tell me what this actually means
>>>
>>> When taking pictures using an XD picture card or internal memory that
>>> has been used on a PC "reformat" the XD picture card or internal
>>> memory,
>>> using your camera for best quality
>>>
>>> I use the computer alot to transfer pictures, but once they are of the
>>> camera, i just start taking them again.
>>>
>>> Not sure about this reformatting the picture card, and how to do it.
>>> Should i be going to the "set up" menu on the camera and selecting
>>> FORMAT > then clicking OK to erase all data, is this what reformatting
>>> is
>>>
>>>
>>> i am using a windows xp PC
>>>
>>> Thanks everybody
>>Yep, that's how you reformat.
>>
>>But, you only need to reformat if you, for some reason, used your PC to
>>format the card before putting it into your camera.
>>
>>If you've just used your PC to download and store your pics, reformatting
>>isn't necesary.
>>
> I understand its a good idea to periodically reformat
> _using_the_camera_ .
>
>

It won't hurt anything. And, if you selectively delete some pics while
leaving others on the card, one should clean up fragmentation by copying
everything off and either deleting all or formatting.

But, I'm not aware of any benefit to formatting over simply deleting all the
files. Of course, I'm not an expert in the field, so someone else might be
able to clear that up a bit...

Take care,
Dudley
 >> Stay informed about: Reformatting the XD picture card 

Dudley Hanks wrote:
> "Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens.RemoveThis@sum.co.nz> wrote in message

> It won't hurt anything. And, if you selectively delete some pics while
> leaving others on the card, one should clean up fragmentation by copying
> everything off and either deleting all or formatting.
>
> But, I'm not aware of any benefit to formatting over simply deleting all the
> files. Of course, I'm not an expert in the field, so someone else might be
> able to clear that up a bit...

There's one killer benefit for me: Reformatting is way faster than
deleting all, and that's been true ever since cards hit all of 515 MB,
at least on my Canons.

--
john mcwilliams
 >> Stay informed about: Reformatting the XD picture card 

"John McWilliams" <jpmcw.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:V-OdnSo8xLjh3JPUnZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@comcast.com...
> Dudley Hanks wrote:
>> "Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens.DeleteThis@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
>
>> It won't hurt anything. And, if you selectively delete some pics while
>> leaving others on the card, one should clean up fragmentation by copying
>> everything off and either deleting all or formatting.
>>
>> But, I'm not aware of any benefit to formatting over simply deleting all
>> the files. Of course, I'm not an expert in the field, so someone else
>> might be able to clear that up a bit...
>
> There's one killer benefit for me: Reformatting is way faster than
> deleting all, and that's been true ever since cards hit all of 515 MB, at
> least on my Canons.
>
>Yeah, there is that aspect... Especially with the slower cards...

I find that deleting on the camera is a lot faster than using the computer
to delete pics after downloading. But, YMMV ....


Take care,
Dudley
 >> Stay informed about: Reformatting the XD picture card 

Dudley Hanks wrote:
> "John McWilliams" <jpmcw RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:V-OdnSo8xLjh3JPUnZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Dudley Hanks wrote:
>>> "Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens RemoveThis @sum.co.nz> wrote in message
>>> It won't hurt anything. And, if you selectively delete some pics while
>>> leaving others on the card, one should clean up fragmentation by copying
>>> everything off and either deleting all or formatting.
>>>
>>> But, I'm not aware of any benefit to formatting over simply deleting all
>>> the files. Of course, I'm not an expert in the field, so someone else
>>> might be able to clear that up a bit...
>> There's one killer benefit for me: Reformatting is way faster than
>> deleting all, and that's been true ever since cards hit all of 515 MB, at
>> least on my Canons.
>>
>> Yeah, there is that aspect... Especially with the slower cards...
>
> I find that deleting on the camera is a lot faster than using the computer
> to delete pics after downloading. But, YMMV ....

Duds-

I was referring to using the camera's "Reformat" or "Format" command;
much faster, much safer than Deleting All. I never format on computer;
always on camera.

--
john mcwilliams
 >> Stay informed about: Reformatting the XD picture card 

Dudley Hanks wrote:

[]

> But, I'm not aware of any benefit to formatting over simply deleting
> all the files. Of course, I'm not an expert in the field, so someone
> else might be able to clear that up a bit...
>
> Take care,
> Dudley

Faster.
Ensures the directory & file structure is correct.
Fewer writes to the flash-card.

My practice is to copy my pictures from the memory card to the computer
every day using a card reader, and let the images build up on the
memory card during subsequent days of use, copying from the card to the
PC, until I have copied the "master" images from that card on the
computer to a couple of backup devices.

If the card might run out of space in the meantime, I will format in
the camera, and create a new "master" directory for that card on the PC.

I will make DVD backups as soon as I have enough data to fill a DVD.
In the meantime, I keep backups on a second PC, and two portable HDs.
Once the backup is made, format the card in the camera taking just a
couple of seconds.

Cheers,
David
 >> Stay informed about: Reformatting the XD picture card 

Quote:

But, you only need to reformat if you, for some reason, used your PC to format the card before putting it into your camera. If you've just used your PC to download and store your pics, reformatting isn't necesary. Good Luck, Dudley

Thanks dudley

Quote:

But, you only need to reformat if you, for some reason, used your PC to format the card before putting it into your camera.

When you say for some reason, you used your pc to format the card before putting it into the camera, by this do you mean like if you have used your pc to delete pictures of the camera, or edited pictures and the put them back on the camera,

I am not using a card reader. just using the usb cable in the back of the camera...
 >> Stay informed about: Reformatting the XD picture card 

Dudley Hanks wrote:
> "Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens.RemoveThis@sum.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:e5fsg4hbokaf1a8cjc5knv4cvo53h9o1l7@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 22:10:15 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
>> <photos.digital.RemoveThis@dudley-hanks.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "baily" <none.RemoveThis@000.com> wrote in message
>>> news:126145_80f5c489f0088f38e4dc4fe6270f7481@digiforumz.com...
>>>> hello there
>>>>
>>>> I am new to digital cameras, and have not long bought my first one,
>>>> its a fugifilm/finepix/a510...its just a starter camera
>>>>
>>>> Reading in the manual, could anyone tell me what this actually means
>>>>
>>>> When taking pictures using an XD picture card or internal memory that
>>>> has been used on a PC "reformat" the XD picture card or internal
>>>> memory,
>>>> using your camera for best quality
>>>>
>>>> I use the computer alot to transfer pictures, but once they are of the
>>>> camera, i just start taking them again.
>>>>
>>>> Not sure about this reformatting the picture card, and how to do it.
>>>> Should i be going to the "set up" menu on the camera and selecting
>>>> FORMAT > then clicking OK to erase all data, is this what reformatting
>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i am using a windows xp PC
>>>>
>>>> Thanks everybody
>>> Yep, that's how you reformat.
>>>
>>> But, you only need to reformat if you, for some reason, used your PC to
>>> format the card before putting it into your camera.
>>>
>>> If you've just used your PC to download and store your pics, reformatting
>>> isn't necesary.
>>>
>> I understand its a good idea to periodically reformat
>> _using_the_camera_ .
>>
>>
>
> It won't hurt anything. And, if you selectively delete some pics while
> leaving others on the card, one should clean up fragmentation by copying
> everything off and either deleting all or formatting.
>
> But, I'm not aware of any benefit to formatting over simply deleting all the
> files. Of course, I'm not an expert in the field, so someone else might be
> able to clear that up a bit...
>
> Take care,
> Dudley
>
>
Formatting in the camera is faster than trying to delete in the camera.
I've never had a problem deleting or formatting on the computer, but
camera formatting is more convenient. Fat type would be camera/card size
dependent.
Fragmentation, although frequently quoted seems to be to be irrelevant
for a random access device.
The only thought that occurs is that there may be some theoretical
advantage to randomly distributing data over the card in some attempt to
equalize the usage of sectors over the complete card storage area. The
quoted write/read cycles for a typical card probably so far exceed what
would be used by a typical user as to make such considerations of no
consequence. In any event I've never read of any scheme to implement
such an algorithm.
Dave Cohen
 >> Stay informed about: Reformatting the XD picture card 

"baily" <none.RemoveThis@000.com> wrote in message
news:126164_809ecd63e8e9669c387d549aad3eb21d@0000.com...
> >But, you only need to reformat if you, for some reason, used your PC
>>to
>>format the card before putting it into your camera.
>>
>>If you've just used your PC to download and store your pics,
>>reformatting
>>isn't necesary.
>>
>>Good Luck,
>>Dudley
>
> Thanks dudley > But, you only need to reformat if you, for some
> reason, used your PC
>>to
>>format the card before putting it into your camera.
>
> When you say for some reason, you used your pc to format the card
> before putting it into the camera, by this do you mean like if you
> have used your pc to delete pictures of the camera, or edited pictures
> and the put them back on the camera,
>
> I am not using a card reader. just using the usb cable in the back of
> the camera...


Then you shouldn't have a problem.

I use a Canon 'A' series p&s camera. For some reason, if the card is
formatted by a computer when the card is in a reader, my camera doesn't like
it, and the card will be ruined rather quickly.

Just using the PC to delete files via the USB cable shouldn't hurt anything,
and should be just as good as reformatting, although maybe a bit slower.

For me, the few extra seconds the deletion process takes isn't a big deal,
but for the pros, every second can count, so some seem to prefer
reformatting over deletion.

Take Care,
Dudley
 >> Stay informed about: Reformatting the XD picture card 

On Mon, 03 Nov 2008 12:45:21 -0500, Dave Cohen <user DeleteThis @example.net> wrote:

>Dudley Hanks wrote:
>> "Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens DeleteThis @sum.co.nz> wrote in message
>> news:e5fsg4hbokaf1a8cjc5knv4cvo53h9o1l7@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 02 Nov 2008 22:10:15 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
>>> <photos.digital DeleteThis @dudley-hanks.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "baily" <none DeleteThis @000.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:126145_80f5c489f0088f38e4dc4fe6270f7481@digiforumz.com...
>>>>> hello there
>>>>>
>>>>> I am new to digital cameras, and have not long bought my first one,
>>>>> its a fugifilm/finepix/a510...its just a starter camera
>>>>>
>>>>> Reading in the manual, could anyone tell me what this actually means
>>>>>
>>>>> When taking pictures using an XD picture card or internal memory that
>>>>> has been used on a PC "reformat" the XD picture card or internal
>>>>> memory,
>>>>> using your camera for best quality
>>>>>
>>>>> I use the computer alot to transfer pictures, but once they are of the
>>>>> camera, i just start taking them again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure about this reformatting the picture card, and how to do it.
>>>>> Should i be going to the "set up" menu on the camera and selecting
>>>>> FORMAT > then clicking OK to erase all data, is this what reformatting
>>>>> is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> i am using a windows xp PC
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks everybody
>>>> Yep, that's how you reformat.
>>>>
>>>> But, you only need to reformat if you, for some reason, used your PC to
>>>> format the card before putting it into your camera.
>>>>
>>>> If you've just used your PC to download and store your pics, reformatting
>>>> isn't necesary.
>>>>
>>> I understand its a good idea to periodically reformat
>>> _using_the_camera_ .
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It won't hurt anything. And, if you selectively delete some pics while
>> leaving others on the card, one should clean up fragmentation by copying
>> everything off and either deleting all or formatting.
>>
>> But, I'm not aware of any benefit to formatting over simply deleting all the
>> files. Of course, I'm not an expert in the field, so someone else might be
>> able to clear that up a bit...
>>
>> Take care,
>> Dudley
>>
>>
>Formatting in the camera is faster than trying to delete in the camera.
>I've never had a problem deleting or formatting on the computer, but
>camera formatting is more convenient. Fat type would be camera/card size
>dependent.
>Fragmentation, although frequently quoted seems to be to be irrelevant
>for a random access device.

While what you say sounds plausible, in real world use random-access memory does
indeed become fragmented. Reformatting fixes this. Contrary to all the
pencil-pushers online who only theorize how it *should* work. On many of the
newer cameras (or in the case of CHDK cameras with the highest video data-rates
possible (least compression, highest quality video), and using burst-modes for
still frames of RAW+JPG in what can be equally high data-rates, then a fast
pristine card is of utmost importance.

Contrary to popular opinion that running a defragmentation utility on an
often-used memory-card (one that hasn't had a fresh format in awhile) will have
no effect, it does restore it to its fastest possible write state. It cleans up
that FAT and puts it in accordance as if it was freshly formatted. While most
defragmentation utilities fail to work on removable memory media, the one in XP
does work on them. I know when I am using burst-modes on my camera that does a
non-stop 3fps up to the capacity of the card, sometimes the rate will slow down
to 2fps or slower halfway during an extended burst sequence of 100 frames or
more. I know then when I get home to run XP's defragger on it. (Reformatting
also works but I retain lots of unrelated files on my cards that I don't care to
replace every time.) The next time I'm out shooting the fragmented memory
bottle-neck is gone and I can use the highest possible burst rate until the card
is full.

You will also find that, under certain circumstances, a FAT16 formatted card can
be written to faster than a FAT32 format, up to 30% or more in some instances,
above what the manufacturer advertises. This is of course camera and memory-card
dependent. You can also risk corruption of your card and/or data if you have not
tested FAT16 formatting extensively to be certain it works with your cards and
hardware. I've been using FAT16 formatted cards in my cameras for the last 3
years without one byte lost. YMWV

See these interesting in-camera tests of various card R/W speeds, independent of
card-reader and USB-port speeds. These speeds are as the cameras see and use
them. http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/Benchmarks CHDK provides for its own in-camera
benchmark testing.

This is probably one of the best charts available to show true speeds of these
cards when used by the cameras themselves. Keeping in mind that the R/W speeds
are dependent on each camera's own chips. (E.g. identical make & model of card
R/W speeds on Digic-II vs. Digic-III cameras on that chart.) However, when
comparing a variety of cards all on the same make and model of camera, then
their relative R/W speeds to one another becomes valuable information, often
revealing false advertising from card manufacturers/retailers.
 >> Stay informed about: Reformatting the XD picture card 

how would you use your computer to format the card, and why would you do it when all the manuals say format the card on your camera for best quality

Dudley Hanks wrote:

"baily" <none.DeleteThis@000.com> wrote in message news:126145_80f5c489f0088f38e4dc4fe6270f7481@digiforumz.com... > hello there > > I am new to digital cameras, and have not long bought my first one, > its a fugifilm/finepix/a510...its just a starter camera > > Reading in the manual, could anyone tell me what this actually means > > When taking pictures using an XD picture card or internal memory that > has been used on a PC "reformat" the XD picture card or internal > memory, > using your camera for best quality > > I use the computer alot to transfer pictures, but once they are of the > camera, i just start taking them again. > > Not sure about this reformatting the picture card, and how to do it. > Should i be going to the "set up" menu on the camera and selecting > FORMAT > then clicking OK to erase all data, is this what reformatting > is > > > i am using a windows xp PC > > Thanks everybody Yep, that's how you reformat. But, you only need to reformat if you, for some reason, used your PC to format the card before putting it into your camera. If you've just used your PC to download and store your pics, reformatting isn't necesary. Good Luck, Dudley

 >> Stay informed about: Reformatting the XD picture card 

baily <none DeleteThis @000.com> wrote:
>how would you use your computer to format the card,

By plugging the card into the card reader which is attached to the
computer and issuing whatever command the operating system uses to
format the drive with whatever file system the camera uses.

>and why would you
>do it when all the manuals say format the card on your camera for best
>quality"

Why not? A file system is a file system and the card couldn't care less
about who created it. Of course you need to know which file system the
camera expects and how to use the tools of your operating system to
create just such a file system. For some people this seems to be an
unsurmountable problem. In any case, it _IS_ more complex than using the
format command in your camera which is one good reason to use the
camera.

There are also claims that a file system created by the camera might be
different than the same file system created by a computer program. If
that is the case then one of those two is broken and creates a
non-conforming file system. Unfortunately if your camera is the one that
creates a broken file system and expects a broken file system then there
is just about nothing you can do but to use the broken formatter in the
camera.

BTW: "better quality" is utter nonsense. The camera doesn't take better
photos because of the file system on the memory card. Either the camera
recognizes the FS and can work with it or it doesn't.

jue
 >> Stay informed about: Reformatting the XD picture card 

On Nov 12, 10:29 pm, "David J Taylor" <david-tay....RemoveThis@blueyonder.neither-
this-part.nor-this-bit.co.uk> wrote:
> Jürgen Exner wrote:
>
> []
>
> > There are also claims that a file system created by the camera might
> > be different than the same file system created by a computer program.
> > If that is the case then one of those two is broken and creates a
> > non-conforming file system. Unfortunately if your camera is the one
> > that creates a broken file system and expects a broken file system
> > then there is just about nothing you can do but to use the broken
> > formatter in the camera.
> []
> > jue
>
> Hardly "broken" if the computer chooses NTFS and the camera requires FAT.
> Or FAT16 and FAT32.  User error.
>
> But as you said, it's easier in the camera in any case, so just do it that
> way to avoid problems.
>
> Cheers,
> David

I have a feeling - and would be interested to know if it is correct -
my feeling is that when an xD card is formatted, all sectors are set
to a value of 0FFH. This makes recovery of old photos impossible.
Other chips, CF, SD etc just rewrite the directory, and so recovery is
always possible.

In the context of this thread, I think it makes no difference, unless
one wants to recover otherwise deleted photos. A camera will not care
if the sector being written to is blanked to 0FFh or old photo data.


Michael
www.cnwrecovery.com
 >> Stay informed about: Reformatting the XD picture card