Print size 7 MP compact vs 6 MP DSLR

On Wed, 02 May 2007 22:59:23 +0000, MikeM wrote:

> I have a 7 MP Oly SP550UZ and the 8x10 prints I make from it and my
> previous camera the C-7070WZ look very sharp to me. I use a HP 3110
> printer set to maximum resolution. I have read that 7 MP should be
> just about big enough to print at 8 x 10, but the maximum print from a
> 6 MP camera would be smaller. I was planning to get a 10 MP DSLR
> camera for a trip but it now seems the best I get at the moment is a 6
> MP DSLR. I realise the results from the 6 MP DSLR will be better than
> the 7 MP compact but how will an 8 x 10 print fom the 2 cameras
> compare?

There are web sites which offer sample pictures from a LOT of different
cameras - take a look - I don't recall the URL, but I'm sure someone here
has it.
 >> Stay informed about: Print size 7 MP compact vs 6 MP DSLR 

Focusing totally on the number of pixels is a very narrow view of an
extremely complicated topic. Pixel count is just part of what contributes
to a high resolution photo. The lenses, type of processor and other
considerations impact the quality of the photo a lot. I've seen people opt
for a 10 MP point and shoot and then later not understanding why an 8 MP
camera such as the Canon 20D is taking better photos. It's not just about
pixel count.

My suggestion, given all of the variables involved, is to look at some of
the tests done by leading photo magazines both in hard print and on-line.
Using just pixel count as the criteria is much like trying to determine
which race car is the best for any given course and focusing solely on the
horsepower of the engine to the exclusion of all other attributes.

Barry

"MikeM" <mmo45018 DeleteThis @bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:v75i33dkp6clhhf45uugr1703b2jf7uq9i@4ax.com...
>I have a 7 MP Oly SP550UZ and the 8x10 prints I make from it and my
> previous camera the C-7070WZ look very sharp to me. I use a HP 3110
> printer set to maximum resolution. I have read that 7 MP should be
> just about big enough to print at 8 x 10, but the maximum print from a
> 6 MP camera would be smaller. I was planning to get a 10 MP DSLR
> camera for a trip but it now seems the best I get at the moment is a 6
> MP DSLR. I realise the results from the 6 MP DSLR will be better than
> the 7 MP compact but how will an 8 x 10 print fom the 2 cameras
> compare?
 >> Stay informed about: Print size 7 MP compact vs 6 MP DSLR 

I asked the question because I have been looking at comparison photos
of my camera vs 6 MP DSLRs and have seen how much better the pics from
a 6 MP DSLR are than mine when viewed at 100 %. The reason I asked the
question is that I looked at a couple of sites that compared the
maximum size a given MP image can be printed before it starts to lose
resolution. At least that's what I thought they were saying. On the
last site I looked at it had the print size of a 6 MP print as smaller
than a print fom a 7 MP camera.

What I would like to know is does the larger size refer only to a 7 MP
image from a DSLR or both DSLR and compact. If I got a 6 MP DSLR would
I see much difference between photos from the 2 cameras in a 8 x 10
print?

On Wed, 02 May 2007 22:59:23 GMT, MikeM <mmo45018 DeleteThis @bigpond.net.au>
wrote:

>I have a 7 MP Oly SP550UZ and the 8x10 prints I make from it and my
>previous camera the C-7070WZ look very sharp to me. I use a HP 3110
>printer set to maximum resolution. I have read that 7 MP should be
>just about big enough to print at 8 x 10, but the maximum print from a
>6 MP camera would be smaller. I was planning to get a 10 MP DSLR
>camera for a trip but it now seems the best I get at the moment is a 6
>MP DSLR. I realise the results from the 6 MP DSLR will be better than
>the 7 MP compact but how will an 8 x 10 print fom the 2 cameras
>compare?
 >> Stay informed about: Print size 7 MP compact vs 6 MP DSLR 

On May 3, 5:38 am, MikeM <mmo45....TakeThisOut@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> You answered my exact question this time. I was hoping to get a Pentax
> K10d but because of the cost I am considering the K100D, which is the
> camera I had in mind when I asked the question.

You also need to consider what lens goes with the body. Some are
sharper than others...

But the difference between 6MP and 7MP is too close to call. The lens
quality used with the sensor will pretty much always dominate the
notional 16% increase in the finest detail the sensor could record.
And a 6MP image will look pretty good when printed at A3+ provided
that you don't stand too close to it. If you are the sort of obsessive
that cannot cope with anything printed at less than 300dpi then 6MP
(3000x2000) gets you 10x6.6" and 8MP (3500x2300) is still short of the
8" mark (even in 4:3 ratio 7MP doesn't quite reach 300dpi at 10x8).

Pixel number wars is useful to marketting departments because it is an
easy number to sell.

> To me at least the pictures taken with the C-7070 seem to be slightly
> sharper and generally better, than those taken with the SP-550, but I
> suppose I couldn't expect to get the same quality photos with the
> massive range of the lens.

Optical superzooms with a range >3x tend to be lower contrast. Digital
zoom murders image quality but may be useful if you have a tiny region
of interest like a bird in a tree and are running out of memory.

> I was going to use my Oly cameras for a trip I leave on in a couple of
> weeks, but as the time gets closer I have been worrying about spending
> 3 months in the UK and Europe and taking lesser quality photos, it is
> unlikely I will ever get back there again to take better ones.

One point here that you may have missed. It is often better to use a
familiar camera for taking once in a lifetime shots than a brand new,
higher spec camera that is more complicated to operate correctly.
Otherwise you risk missing the shot while consulting the manual or
taking shots with the camera in a less than optimal configuration.
Buying a new camera a couple of weeks before you leave is cutting it a
bit fine for learning how to use it effectively.

I always carry a compact and a DSLR on my travels (the compact Ixus
goes everywhere). I once had a film camera body fail on a trip to the
USA a spare camera body and the film compact saved the day..

Regards,
Martin Brown
 >> Stay informed about: Print size 7 MP compact vs 6 MP DSLR 

MikeM wrote:

> I asked the question because I have been looking at comparison photos
> of my camera vs 6 MP DSLRs and have seen how much better the pics from
> a 6 MP DSLR are than mine when viewed at 100 %. The reason I asked the
> question is that I looked at a couple of sites that compared the
> maximum size a given MP image can be printed before it starts to lose
> resolution.

The loss in resolution on larger prints can be compared only the same
picture from the same camera when it is printed on a smaller sheet.

If the greater megapixel camera has a poorer image taking ability to
begin with, the enlarged shot will be just that much worse.

A case in point...My 6MP Pentax K100d prints noticeably better pictures
than the 8MP Panasonic Lumix FZ30 at *every* identical print size. There
is far more to picture quality than just pixel count.

In the smaller, point and shoot category, I was very impressed with the
Fujifilm F10 6MP. That also takes better pictures than the FZ30 Lumix. I
keep the Lumix only because of the zoom. Leica should make sure that
people using their lenses ALSO use equal quality sensors. Putting that
glass in front of such poor firmware is shameful.





mike
 >> Stay informed about: Print size 7 MP compact vs 6 MP DSLR 

You answered my exact question this time. I was hoping to get a Pentax
K10d but because of the cost I am considering the K100D, which is the
camera I had in mind when I asked the question.

To me at least the pictures taken with the C-7070 seem to be slightly
sharper and generally better, than those taken with the SP-550, but I
suppose I couldn't expect to get the same quality photos with the
massive range of the lens.

I was going to use my Oly cameras for a trip I leave on in a couple of
weeks, but as the time gets closer I have been worrying about spending
3 months in the UK and Europe and taking lesser quality photos, it is
unlikely I will ever get back there again to take better ones.

On Thu, 03 May 2007 03:15:33 GMT, m II <c.DeleteThis@in.the.hat> wrote:

>MikeM wrote:
>
>> I asked the question because I have been looking at comparison photos
>> of my camera vs 6 MP DSLRs and have seen how much better the pics from
>> a 6 MP DSLR are than mine when viewed at 100 %. The reason I asked the
>> question is that I looked at a couple of sites that compared the
>> maximum size a given MP image can be printed before it starts to lose
>> resolution.
>
>The loss in resolution on larger prints can be compared only the same
>picture from the same camera when it is printed on a smaller sheet.
>
>If the greater megapixel camera has a poorer image taking ability to
>begin with, the enlarged shot will be just that much worse.
>
>A case in point...My 6MP Pentax K100d prints noticeably better pictures
>than the 8MP Panasonic Lumix FZ30 at *every* identical print size. There
>is far more to picture quality than just pixel count.
>
>In the smaller, point and shoot category, I was very impressed with the
>Fujifilm F10 6MP. That also takes better pictures than the FZ30 Lumix. I
>keep the Lumix only because of the zoom. Leica should make sure that
>people using their lenses ALSO use equal quality sensors. Putting that
>glass in front of such poor firmware is shameful.
>
>
>
>
>
>mike
 >> Stay informed about: Print size 7 MP compact vs 6 MP DSLR 

m II wrote:
> MikeM wrote:
>
Snip>
> A case in point...My 6MP Pentax K100d prints noticeably better
> pictures than the 8MP Panasonic Lumix FZ30 at *every* identical print
> size. There is far more to picture quality than just pixel count.
>
You must have a duff FZ30. My Panasonic FZ20 produces slightly better
(sharper) images than my Nikon D70s with it's 18-70 kit lens, and using a
non-auto lens on the Nikon, such as the F2.8 24mm Nikkor renders the 2
images from these cameras about the same.

Perhaps your FZ30 has been damaged in some way?

There can be a difference between 2 cameras of the same make and type, due
to manufacturing tolerances, lenses etc.

DP
 >> Stay informed about: Print size 7 MP compact vs 6 MP DSLR 

"Dennis Pogson" <dennis_nospampogson.DeleteThis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3Gg_h.8360$615.5550@newsfe7-win.ntli.net...
>m II wrote:
>> MikeM wrote:
>>
> Snip>
>> A case in point...My 6MP Pentax K100d prints noticeably better
>> pictures than the 8MP Panasonic Lumix FZ30 at *every* identical print
>> size. There is far more to picture quality than just pixel count.
>>
> You must have a duff FZ30. My Panasonic FZ20 produces slightly better
> (sharper) images than my Nikon D70s with it's 18-70 kit lens, and using a
> non-auto lens on the Nikon, such as the F2.8 24mm Nikkor renders the 2
> images from these cameras about the same.
>
> Perhaps your FZ30 has been damaged in some way?
>
> There can be a difference between 2 cameras of the same make and type, due
> to manufacturing tolerances, lenses etc.
>
> DP
>
>

He is correct the Pentax will give a better image than the Panasonic. I have
the K10D and the FZ30 and while in some areas the 30 is more pleasing (it
does a better job of in camera sharpening) the small sensor adds a great
deal of noise that in my opinion makes the images look worse when compared
to just about any dSLR camera. It all comes down to sensor size.

=(
 >> Stay informed about: Print size 7 MP compact vs 6 MP DSLR 

MikeM <mmo45018 RemoveThis @bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>I have a 7 MP Oly SP550UZ and the 8x10 prints I make from it and my
>previous camera the C-7070WZ look very sharp to me. I use a HP 3110
>printer set to maximum resolution. I have read that 7 MP should be
>just about big enough to print at 8 x 10, but the maximum print from a
>6 MP camera would be smaller.

I've done a 20"x30" print from a 6MP camera that looks really nice.
But I also used a quality lens and camera.

> I was planning to get a 10 MP DSLR
>camera for a trip but it now seems the best I get at the moment is a 6
>MP DSLR. I realise the results from the 6 MP DSLR will be better than
>the 7 MP compact but how will an 8 x 10 print fom the 2 cameras
>compare?

If you see any difference it will because of the quality of the camera
and lens and not because of the number of pixels.

Spend some time here: www.dpreview.com
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer RemoveThis @sonic.net
 >> Stay informed about: Print size 7 MP compact vs 6 MP DSLR 

"Ray Fischer" <rfischer RemoveThis @sonic.net> wrote in message
news:463a134a$0$14145$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> MikeM <mmo45018 RemoveThis @bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>I have a 7 MP Oly SP550UZ and the 8x10 prints I make from it and my
>>previous camera the C-7070WZ look very sharp to me. I use a HP 3110
>>printer set to maximum resolution. I have read that 7 MP should be
>>just about big enough to print at 8 x 10, but the maximum print from a
>>6 MP camera would be smaller.
>
> I've done a 20"x30" print from a 6MP camera that looks really nice.
> But I also used a quality lens and camera.
>
>> I was planning to get a 10 MP DSLR
>>camera for a trip but it now seems the best I get at the moment is a 6
>>MP DSLR. I realise the results from the 6 MP DSLR will be better than
>>the 7 MP compact but how will an 8 x 10 print fom the 2 cameras
>>compare?
>
> If you see any difference it will because of the quality of the camera
> and lens and not because of the number of pixels.
>
> Spend some time here: www.dpreview.com
> --
> Ray Fischer
> rfischer RemoveThis @sonic.net
>

The number of pixels never makes a difference. They make it easier to do
extreme crops, but as far as final image quality they very seldom make a bit
of difference. Sensor size, the processing engine in the camera, the lens,
the skill of the person holding the camera all have a much more visible
impact on the final image than a couple of hundred more pixels in the X and
Y dimensions.

I went from 8MP to 10MP for more cropping ability, not for better image
quality. Though I got that too because I went from a small sensored P&S
camera to a dSLR.

=(
 >> Stay informed about: Print size 7 MP compact vs 6 MP DSLR 

I have posted some of the test shots I took at various focal lengths
and light conditions on alt.binaries.photos.original if any one is
interested in commenting.

Thanks
Mike


On Wed, 02 May 2007 22:59:23 GMT, MikeM <mmo45018 DeleteThis @bigpond.net.au>
wrote:

>I have a 7 MP Oly SP550UZ and the 8x10 prints I make from it and my
>previous camera the C-7070WZ look very sharp to me. I use a HP 3110
>printer set to maximum resolution. I have read that 7 MP should be
>just about big enough to print at 8 x 10, but the maximum print from a
>6 MP camera would be smaller. I was planning to get a 10 MP DSLR
>camera for a trip but it now seems the best I get at the moment is a 6
>MP DSLR. I realise the results from the 6 MP DSLR will be better than
>the 7 MP compact but how will an 8 x 10 print fom the 2 cameras
>compare?
 >> Stay informed about: Print size 7 MP compact vs 6 MP DSLR 

On Thu, 03 May 2007 21:55:26 GMT, MikeM <mmo45018.DeleteThis@bigpond.net.au>
wrote:

>I have posted some of the test shots I took at various focal lengths
>and light conditions on alt.binaries.photos.original if any one is
>interested in commenting.
>
>Thanks
>Mike
>
>
>On Wed, 02 May 2007 22:59:23 GMT, MikeM <mmo45018.DeleteThis@bigpond.net.au>
>wrote:
>
>>I have a 7 MP Oly SP550UZ and the 8x10 prints I make from it and my
>>previous camera the C-7070WZ look very sharp to me. I use a HP 3110
>>printer set to maximum resolution. I have read that 7 MP should be
>>just about big enough to print at 8 x 10, but the maximum print from a
>>6 MP camera would be smaller. I was planning to get a 10 MP DSLR
>>camera for a trip but it now seems the best I get at the moment is a 6
>>MP DSLR. I realise the results from the 6 MP DSLR will be better than
>>the 7 MP compact but how will an 8 x 10 print fom the 2 cameras
>>compare?

Mike M,
As Martin Brown correctly pointed out, 2 weeks may
not be enough time to select & learn a new camera/lens(es), especially
if your going from a P&S to a DSLR.

I checked out the pictures you posted & they seem to indicate
that your doing just fine with what you have. If these are
representative of the *types* of things you intend to capture, I'd
consider waiting on the DLSR until you have had more of an opportunity
to decide which 1 would best meet "your" needs & the same goes for a
lens or lenses.

Additionally, P&S cameras have very wide Depth Of Field (DOF)
which can either be advantageous as illustrated in your skyscraper
pictures or a bit of a disadvantage when you want a narrow DOF to
place a cluttered background out of focus in order to isolate your
subject & can't get close enough to do it with a P&S.

Picture P4022657c shows some noticeable Chromatic Aberration
(CA) along the right side of the building. CA often shows up as
purple fringing & is often more common toward the edges of a picture.

Picture P4180690c is a bit soft but all things considered
it's impressive for a P&S. You may want to consider leaving the
META/EXIF DATA intact when posting pictures because it can help others
to see what camera & setting you used to achieve your results. Most
editing software will give you that option & if you would rather not
include it, I can respect that.

Best of luck in whatever choice you make but for most people,
buying a DSLR is just the 1st expense. One can easily spend more on
just 1 lens than they did on the DSLR body, so you see why these are
not choices 1 should make in haste.

Last point: Don't forget an extra battery & flash card just in
case of a rare failure or accidental damage. If possible mail home
copies of your pictures on CD or DVD just in case. Always a good idea
not to have all of your eggs in just 1 basket!

Respectfully, DHB


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
 >> Stay informed about: Print size 7 MP compact vs 6 MP DSLR 

Human's spend their lives learning. Expecting to master a camera in two
weeks is like trying to master life in a single life-time. Use your camera,
play with your camera, try the different settings and controls and see what
you get. You will never master it. Espeically these days when it will be
obsolute long before you come close to mastering it.

=(
 >> Stay informed about: Print size 7 MP compact vs 6 MP DSLR