Canon PowerShot S3 IS?

jeffc226.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com wrote:
> Camera gets good reviews. Have an opportunity to buy a new one at
> $175. Is this being discontinued and not considered a great deal with
> newer cameras such as the S5 out, or is it still a solid camera if I
> like the features? (which I do, except for no optical viewfinder and
> supposed redeye issues, but I haven't found the perfect camera in my
> price range yet.) Would be willing to spend $300-350 or so if I found
> the "perfect" camera, but prefer under $300.
>
I have been quite pleased with my S3 (especially its IS) which I bought
just a few days before the S5 was announced. I would love a hot shoe
(which you can use to prevent red eye, but be sure to add in the cost of
a compatible external flash). I understand (but haven't verified) that
the S5 has a larger LCD and a higher resolution EVF than the S3.
However, the S3 was at the top of my price range (thanks to exorbitant
medical expense) so I wouldn't have bought the S5 had I known it was due
to arrive. I must admit, though, that I was a little chagrined when the
S5 popped out--normal luck for me. It sounds like you have similar cost
restraints, so be sure to investigate the cost of that external flash
before you make a decision. Also, you didn't mention what sorts of
pictures you will be taking. I'm interested in wildflowers, birds, etc,
and also 11-year-old sports (can you guess the age of my grandson?). If
you are more interested in indoor pictures, you might want to check out
a different P&S with IS. As they say, whatever floats your boat, and enjoy!
Allen
 >> Stay informed about: Canon PowerShot S3 IS? 

"jeffc226@yahoo.com" <jeffc226.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1192030535.830012.150810@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
> Camera gets good reviews. Have an opportunity to buy a new one at
> $175. Is this being discontinued and not considered a great deal with
> newer cameras such as the S5 out

The S5 is a very mild upgrade to the S3. The main new feature on the S5 is
the hot shoe which gives you many more options for indoor photography. With
the 12X zoom, the S3/S5 are mostly outdoor cameras anyway. If you plan to
take most of your photos indoors, there are better choices like the Canon G9.
 >> Stay informed about: Canon PowerShot S3 IS? 

user RemoveThis @example.net (Dave Cohen) wrote in
news:6Q6Pi.4990$q42.3500@trndny06:

> One curious note, people seem to prefer the EV finder on these
> models to a straight optical.

I'm one of those, but maybe it's because I've never run across a
really good optical finder. I like the fact that I'm getting a true
representation of the area to be photographed, but find the large LCD
on the back of the camera to be useless in daylight.

> I've never used an EV finder. They do say the Canon one could use
> more resolution, try for yourself.

Yeah; I find my S3's finder to be too grainy for my liking, although
the only time that's an actual problem is when I'm trying to do
manual focus. It's also not bright enough and is rather easily washed
out by light entering through the eyepiece.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert RemoveThis @iphouse.com
 >> Stay informed about: Canon PowerShot S3 IS? 

jeffc226.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> Camera gets good reviews. Have an opportunity to buy a new one at
> $175. Is this being discontinued and not considered a great deal with
> newer cameras such as the S5 out, or is it still a solid camera if I
> like the features? (which I do, except for no optical viewfinder and
> supposed redeye issues, but I haven't found the perfect camera in my
> price range yet.) Would be willing to spend $300-350 or so if I found
> the "perfect" camera, but prefer under $300.
>

That's a good price. An S5 IS would be considerably more and I don't
think you gain that much except another 2 mp you don't need. Even the
old 'what if I need to crop' loses some of it's punch on a camera with a
12x zoom!!
For a closer look at the specs, look at the canon site:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fc...goryid=
for the S5 IS, then scroll down to the archive link on same page and
locate S3 IS.
Also, check the usual suspects like http://www.dpreview.com/, Steve's
digicams etc.
One curious note, people seem to prefer the EV finder on these models to
a straight optical. I've never used an EV finder. They do say the Canon
one could use more resolution, try for yourself. Red-eye issues come
with p&s, would prefer not to have the problem but easy to fix in any
photo editor.
Dave Cohen
 >> Stay informed about: Canon PowerShot S3 IS? 

<jeffc226 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1192030535.830012.150810@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Camera gets good reviews. Have an opportunity to buy a new one at
> $175. Is this being discontinued and not considered a great deal with
> newer cameras such as the S5 out, or is it still a solid camera if I
> like the features? (which I do, except for no optical viewfinder and
> supposed redeye issues, but I haven't found the perfect camera in my
> price range yet.) Would be willing to spend $300-350 or so if I found
> the "perfect" camera, but prefer under $300.

Eh. Buy it.

Canon has my S1 at the moment for a covered repair, and I can't wait to get
it back. Great little camera.

dwight
 >> Stay informed about: Canon PowerShot S3 IS? 

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:35:35 -0700
"jeffc226@yahoo.com" <jeffc226 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> Camera gets good reviews. Have an opportunity to buy a new one at
> $175. Is this being discontinued and not considered a great deal with
> newer cameras such as the S5 out, or is it still a solid camera if I
> like the features? (which I do, except for no optical viewfinder and
> supposed redeye issues, but I haven't found the perfect camera in my
> price range yet.) Would be willing to spend $300-350 or so if I found
> the "perfect" camera, but prefer under $300.

A friend of mine has the S2 and loves it. Objective reviews show its
optics to be slightly less sharp than the Panasonic competition, but
it's hard to see that in sample images. The price is very nice. I
hear you on the limitations of EVF's, but am not quite sure how you
would put a 12x optical zoom viewfinder in a non-SLR without changing
the camera's size or price.

Paul Allen
 >> Stay informed about: Canon PowerShot S3 IS? 

"Paul Allen" <paul.l.allen.TakeThisOut@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote in message

> I hear you on the limitations of EVF's, but am not quite sure how you
> would put a 12x optical zoom viewfinder in a non-SLR without changing
> the camera's size or price.

I too have the S3IS and think it is a great camera to compliment my smaller
point-and-shoot and my dSLR. I too think an optical viewfinder is
unrealistic but it would be relatively easy to put a EVF with more pixels
in.

Having said that the camera has a rather nifty PiP mode for manual focus
where it zoom into the centre point of the screen to help focussing and I
usually find I can leave focussing to the camera for most situations and it
rarely gets it wrong. I just use the EVF for composition.
 >> Stay informed about: Canon PowerShot S3 IS? 

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 08:50:05 -0700, Paul Allen <paul.l.allen.TakeThisOut@NOSPAM.comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:35:35 -0700
>"jeffc226@yahoo.com" <jeffc226.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Camera gets good reviews. Have an opportunity to buy a new one at
>> $175. Is this being discontinued and not considered a great deal with
>> newer cameras such as the S5 out, or is it still a solid camera if I
>> like the features? (which I do, except for no optical viewfinder and
>> supposed redeye issues, but I haven't found the perfect camera in my
>> price range yet.) Would be willing to spend $300-350 or so if I found
>> the "perfect" camera, but prefer under $300.
>
>A friend of mine has the S2 and loves it. Objective reviews show its
>optics to be slightly less sharp than the Panasonic competition, but
>it's hard to see that in sample images. The price is very nice. I
>hear you on the limitations of EVF's, but am not quite sure how you
>would put a 12x optical zoom viewfinder in a non-SLR without changing
>the camera's size or price.
>
>Paul Allen

One huge advantage to buying either an S2 or S3 over an S5 that people haven't
mentioned yet.

http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK

It can't be added to the S5, or at least nobody can find a way to yet and it
doesn't look like they will either. Be sure to check out the firmware usage and
scripts pages to see what you can do. The motion-detection option of CHDK alone
is worth buying an S2 or S3. Check out the recent post about hand-free
unattended lightning photography using the motion-detection option. The
motion-detection feature is fast enough to trigger the camera on the pre-flash
discharge that happens before the main lightning strike.
 >> Stay informed about: Canon PowerShot S3 IS? 

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:26:36 +0100
"John Ortt" <johnortt RemoveThis @noemailsuppliedasdontwantspam.com> wrote:

>
> "Paul Allen" <paul.l.allen RemoveThis @NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> > I hear you on the limitations of EVF's, but am not quite sure how
> > you would put a 12x optical zoom viewfinder in a non-SLR without
> > changing the camera's size or price.
>
> I too have the S3IS and think it is a great camera to compliment my
> smaller point-and-shoot and my dSLR. I too think an optical
> viewfinder is unrealistic but it would be relatively easy to put a
> EVF with more pixels in.

Yup, but but my FZ30's 230k EVF still is no match for what I had with
my trusty old Olympus OM-2n. <sniff>

> Having said that the camera has a rather nifty PiP mode for manual
> focus where it zoom into the centre point of the screen to help
> focussing and I usually find I can leave focussing to the camera for
> most situations and it rarely gets it wrong. I just use the EVF for
> composition.

The FZ30 zooms in on the center of the image when you touch the focus
ring, but it is quite hard to tell when it's exactly in focus. I
generally use manual focus only when the auto focus fails to read my
mind. I've got the auto focus rigged to watch nine focus points
and tell me when each is in focus. It would be nice to have the
camera provide that kind of feedback in manual focus mode. Too bad
the firmware's not open source. It'd be fun to hack that feature in.

Paul Allen
 >> Stay informed about: Canon PowerShot S3 IS? 

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:35:35 -0700, jeffc226.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com wrote:

> Camera gets good reviews. Have an opportunity to buy a new one at
> $175. Is this being discontinued and not considered a great deal with
> newer cameras such as the S5 out, or is it still a solid camera if I
> like the features? (which I do, except for no optical viewfinder and
> supposed redeye issues, but I haven't found the perfect camera in my
> price range yet.) Would be willing to spend $300-350 or so if I found
> the "perfect" camera, but prefer under $300.

Seems to be a decent camera except: YMMV but I find the electronic
viewfinder to be unacceptable. It is about 110k pixels - and for me it is
too blocky to be usable. For example: look at the EVF in a Kodak Z or P
series - 220k pixels and a lot better. There are other manufacturers as
well now making decent EVFs.

Once again: this seems to not bother a lot of folks, but drives me to
distraction. I highly recommend you look through several EVF cameras
before you buy one.
 >> Stay informed about: Canon PowerShot S3 IS? 

In article <77mdnVfVJNpQyJDanZ2dnUVZ_oOnnZ2d.DeleteThis@comcast.com>, "dwight" <tfrog93.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
><jeffc226.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1192030535.830012.150810@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> Camera gets good reviews. Have an opportunity to buy a new one at
>> $175. Is this being discontinued and not considered a great deal with
>> newer cameras such as the S5 out, or is it still a solid camera if I
>> like the features? (which I do, except for no optical viewfinder and
>> supposed redeye issues, but I haven't found the perfect camera in my
>> price range yet.) Would be willing to spend $300-350 or so if I found
>> the "perfect" camera, but prefer under $300.
>
>Eh. Buy it.
>
>Canon has my S1 at the moment for a covered repair, and I can't wait to get
>it back. Great little camera.
>
>dwight
>
>
I agree, a S3IS at $175 is a great deal!
 >> Stay informed about: Canon PowerShot S3 IS? 

On Fri, 12 Oct 2007 12:54:35 -0600, ray <ray.TakeThisOut@zianet.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 08:35:35 -0700, jeffc226.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Camera gets good reviews. Have an opportunity to buy a new one at
>> $175. Is this being discontinued and not considered a great deal with
>> newer cameras such as the S5 out, or is it still a solid camera if I
>> like the features? (which I do, except for no optical viewfinder and
>> supposed redeye issues, but I haven't found the perfect camera in my
>> price range yet.) Would be willing to spend $300-350 or so if I found
>> the "perfect" camera, but prefer under $300.
>
>Seems to be a decent camera except: YMMV but I find the electronic
>viewfinder to be unacceptable. It is about 110k pixels - and for me it is
>too blocky to be usable. For example: look at the EVF in a Kodak Z or P
>series - 220k pixels and a lot better. There are other manufacturers as
>well now making decent EVFs.
>
>Once again: this seems to not bother a lot of folks, but drives me to
>distraction. I highly recommend you look through several EVF cameras
>before you buy one.

I'm one of those "lot of folks" that it never seems to bother. In fact, with
enough use you start to see "through" that pixelation. I grew up on everything
from twin-lens-reflex to SLRs, to DSLRs, I don't miss any of those optical
viewfinders, not in the least. In an EVF/LCD the details become averaged over
more than one pixel as you move the FOV around, your mind's-eye reassembling it
into fine details. No different than how much detail you can perceive in your TV
screen, those individual hairs on someone's head become discernable, even though
its data resolution is only 360x240 at best. That's because you see different
detail from frame to frame and your mind reassembles it. It becomes second
nature to see the extra detail in an EVF/LCD in the exact same way. Guess what
the resolution of the S3 IS display is? 360x240, the very same resolution as
your (old) TV display, that never seemed to bother anyone for over 50 years.
Everyone use to pride themselves on how sharp and clear all that detail was in
them (until HDTV came along, and not everyone has that still).

Then there's ways to learn to use that pixelation to your advantage. First of
all the main use is for framing, composition, and watching for exposure and
colors. It does that just fine. Plus displaying a plethora of exposure and
camera settings (I love that about an EVF). You don't need high resolution for
any of that. Now comes the snafu, using it for manual focusing or checking for
focus. Here's the ONLY reason people have problems.

I discovered and use this technique using low-res EVFs/LCDs over 7 years ago
when I got my first digital camera with an EVF.

Think of the screen as a "reverse microprism" focusing screen. Like the
micro-prism pattern that you remember from SLR, and DSLR screens. You know, that
small area (usually in a ring pattern surrounding a split-prism in the center)
that they have to assist with more accurate focusing? All the little diamond
patterns scintillate until your subject is in focus, then the little
micro-prisms disappear and it becomes clear as plain glass when in focus.

Well, just think of that in reverse. On a low-res EVF/LCD, any contrasty
textures and edges will cause the display pixels to scintillate only when they
ARE in focus, not out of focus. This is caused by the small details passing over
the pixels, changing them independently. When something is blurry more than 1
pixel will be affected as the blurry details move over them, no scintillation.
You just have to train your eye to watch for this effect. Once you learn to see
it you'll find that focusing on a low-res EVF/LCD display to be even faster and
more accurate than using an optical viewfinder with the best focusing screen.
Because the whole EVF/LCD is one huge micro-prism array (but used in a reverse
method). This allows you to see ALL parts of your subject that will be in focus,
not just the teeny area you might have situated right where a small micro-prism
area exists on a focusing screen.

Try it, you'll be surprised just how fast and accurate you can focus with any
EVF/LCD. It takes a sharp eye to learn to see that scintillation at first, but
once you learn to recognize it you'll start to wonder how you missed it all
those years. In fact one camera that came out this year is using that to its
benefit, I'm pretty sure it's one of the Sonys. (Maybe someone from their
company read one of my posts from 6 years ago about this, I did after-all first
announce it on a Sony forum.) Their camera detects that scintillation
electronically then enhances it with a highlight color. I thought that a nice
gimmick but not needed if you train your own eye to see it in any camera's
EVF/LCD.

Is a higher resolution EVF/LCD nicer? It can be. It all depends on how bright it
is and what the camera is willing to display in it. I've not found one EVF/LCD
that was better than another. Higher resolution is nice but when not available
low-resolution has its benefits too. Learn to see and use things in new ways and
you'll have few complaints about any of them.
 >> Stay informed about: Canon PowerShot S3 IS? 

Ted Harley wrote:
[]
> Guess what the resolution of the
> S3 IS display is? 360x240, the very same resolution as your (old) TV
> display, that never seemed to bother anyone for over 50 years.
> Everyone use to pride themselves on how sharp and clear all that
> detail was in them (until HDTV came along, and not everyone has that
> still).

No, the S3 IS has 115,000 total pixels, so that's 38,333 RGB pixels, or
about 168 lines of 224 pixels. In the UK, analog TV has 575 active lines,
and in the US NTSC TV has 486 active lines (according to Wikipedia). In
digital UK TV, there are 720 pixels per line, so a TV display has 414 RGB
kilopixels, compared with the S3 IS 38 kilopixels.

David
 >> Stay informed about: Canon PowerShot S3 IS?