Photoshop recommendations

OK, so let's say 'many' rather than 'most'. The point I was attempting to
make is that unless you spend most of your day every day in front of the
computer playing with the software, 30 days is likely to be enough to get
a very general introduction - certainly not to master anything or get a
real feel for what it will do. I have a life aside from photography. My
time would be limited to a few hours here and there. I find 30 days to be
quite a short evaluation period. But since I'm not likely to evaluate
adobe products until the Linux version comes out, I guess my opinion does
not count.
 >> Stay informed about: Photoshop recommendations 

"John Navas" wrote in message

> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:57:23 -0500, tony cooper
> wrote in
> :
>
>>On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 17:07:26 -0500, Dave Cohen
>>wrote:
>>
>>>My local library has some stuff on both PS and Elements. Not sure what
>>>versions are covered. I got a $50 gift certificate for Barnes & Noble so
>>>I'll see what they carry.
>>
>>If you purchase Elements 5.0, 6.0, or 7.0, and all your library
>>carries are books on 4.0 or any previous version to what you purchase,
>>it won't make a great deal of difference to you. The basic functions
>>have not changed. A book on 4.0 will be useful in learning how to use
>>6.0. It won't cover some added features, but you'll be starting out
>>with the basics. Some of the new features are pretty
>>self-explanatory. Just try them and see what they do.
>
> I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover
> features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it's easier
> to see just what to do.


Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques

I highly recommend the Adobe website tutorials and Russell Brown (if you can
get by his weird "sense of humor")
always top notch techniques
and great ideas

If the vids do not play from the page
right click and choose save target as
let them download to your comp and watch later


> Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
> John

same to you all
happy whatever you celebrate
 >> Stay informed about: Photoshop recommendations 

"ray" wrote in message

> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
>> In article , ray
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30
>>> > days.
>>>
>>> Geez - that would seem to be a major restriction!
>>
>> how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth
>> purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide
>> within a week or two.
>
> Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to
> use photoshop - it does seem rather limiting.

If you take a class the comps have educational copies already installed on
the comps in the room

no purchase other than course money is required
also qualifies you to buy a cheaper and fully functional and identical
program of PS at educational prices

wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in PS
users group and feel the need to make put downs?

like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris
 >> Stay informed about: Photoshop recommendations 

"tony cooper" wrote in message

> On 27 Dec 2008 01:46:54 GMT, ray wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:
>>
>>> In article , ray
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30
>>>> > days.
>>>>
>>>> Geez - that would seem to be a major restriction!
>>>
>>> how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth
>>> purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can decide
>>> within a week or two.
>>
>>Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how to
>>use photoshop - it does seem rather limiting.
>
> I don't know where you get that idea. Certainly, some user have taken
> a class, but it's far from "most". Even the people who have taken a
> class are usually people who have worked with Photoshop for a period
> of time and signed up for a class to improve their skills.
>
> Not only have most people not taken a class, but it's not that easy to
> find a Photoshop class. Some universities have undergraduate courses
> in graphic design, but they aren't for beginning Photoshop users.
> Some community colleges have non-credit courses, but are usually so
> general that they are not worthwhile to take.
>
> I attended a half-day "class" put on by Adobe at one of the Adobe
> traveling roadshows, but it was nothing more than a presentation of
> the newest version that highlighted the new features. It was not
> hands-on. It wasn't worth the time for me.
>
> The average non-professional who uses the full Photoshop is
> self-taught from books or online tutorials. The average
> non-professional is employed full-time and doesn't have the time
> available to take a university course if one was offered.
>
> A person interested in using Photoshop who downloads the trial version
> and works through some of the on-line tutorials, or follows a book
> with an enclosed CD of examples, will gradually pick up the basic
> skills. How proficient that person becomes will depend on how much
> time he spends on tutorials or completing projects from books.
>
> If you follow the Adobe forums you'll find that most new users are
> learning the basics by this method.
>
> I have been using full Photoshop for six years, and except for that
> rather disappointing half-day, I've never taken a class. I'm no pro,
> but I'm rather advanced in the use of Photoshop.
>
> I don't know why you would make a statement about "most" users when
> you have no idea what "most" users do. I've followed the Photoshop
> newsgroups and forums for six years, and I think I have a good idea of
> what "most" do.
>
>
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

have to agree tony
the "courses" are mostly sales pitches you pay for
and all about the upgrades

never took any courses just learned bit by bit since version 4.0
and learned more as I went along
and I still learn new things and adapt to changes in the program as it
upgrades to new versions

I was invited to teach as a guest lecturer at a fashion college
it seems the regular professor was a little clueless himself
just used the syllabus book
learned his stuff the night before and then taught it the next day!!!
his background is web design and although proficient at that when it came to
retouching and creating images photography techniques and enhancing etc he
was a little out his box
hence my invite

I would be pissed if I paid for a course with a teacher like that
I can read a book myself

he gets $35 US dollars an hour for that!~!!
 >> Stay informed about: Photoshop recommendations 

In article , ray
wrote:

> OK, so let's say 'many' rather than 'most'. The point I was attempting to
> make is that unless you spend most of your day every day in front of the
> computer playing with the software, 30 days is likely to be enough to get
> a very general introduction - certainly not to master anything or get a
> real feel for what it will do.

that's all it's supposed to do - give you an introduction so that you
can decide whether to choose it over another product.

> I have a life aside from photography. My
> time would be limited to a few hours here and there. I find 30 days to be
> quite a short evaluation period.

30 days is more than enough to get an idea whether or not to purchase
the product.

if you only spend a couple hours here and there, then the full suite is
clearly not for you (it's targeted at pros who make their living with
it). a better choice would be photoshop elements. it's just $100,
often found for less and even free when it's bundled with hardware.

in other words, if you haven't decided in 30 days for something that
costs as little as $30-50 or so, you probably don't want it all that
much. extending the trial period to 90 days is not likely to result in
changing your mind.

> But since I'm not likely to evaluate
> adobe products until the Linux version comes out, I guess my opinion does
> not count.

the likelihood of a linux version of adobe creative suite is for all
intents, zero. in fact, they actually had a bsd version of photoshop
in the early 90s and it didn't sell.
 >> Stay informed about: Photoshop recommendations 

Matt Ion wrote:

> > Elements is now up to 7. Much has changed.
>
> And this is reason I should change what I'm already comfortable and
> happy with?
>
> PSP has changed much over the years. As has GIMP. As has Windows,
> MacOS, *nix, and computer hardware in general. I see no point in
> changing just for the sake of changing.

Most of the changes were BIG improvements. My favorite improvements are:

1) Lighten shadows.
2) Darken highlights.

These really speed up what were curve changes.

3) Also changes are much faster.

Probably the next most favorite changes is the

4) smart edge select tool.

It makes it a snap to select a region for enhancement.

Also the enhancement tools are much improved. You no longer have to
constantly go back and forth between brightness and contrast. The

5) ASA tool is much better. Also, the have the

6) cool/warm tool which is much more meaningful than the old tint
control.

Fortunately, iPhoto has adapted these changes also.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to rhodyman.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA - http://rhodyman.net
 >> Stay informed about: Photoshop recommendations 

>>I would strongly suggest that you check out this page:
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_raster_graphics_editors
>>
>>It lists most all of the better-known graphic editors. Many of them are freeware
>>and would do more than you will ever need.

On Thu, 25 Dec 2008 22:06:17 -0500, tony cooper
wrote:

>Where the Adobe programs kick in is when you want to do more
>sophisticated editing...adjustment layers, for example. An adjustment
>layer allows you to change Levels, Brightness/Contrast, Hue and
>Saturation, etc in a non-permanent way that allows you to come back
>and tweak individual steps.

Adjustment Layers is not some amazing "adobe only" concept in graphic editing
programs. On that Wiki raster-graphics page I count 35 different editors that
use layers and adjustment layers. Take Photoline for example. It alone includes
34 adjustment layer types. One more of them is a "custom" adjustment layer where
you can define as many of your own filters as you like by editing a
filter-matrix. So in reality, that program has an unlimited number of adjustment
layers if you want to define your own collection of presets on the custom one.

Photoshop was left in the dust by many programs, long ago. Online photoshop fans
just don't realize it. Like the religious, they have kept their nose plastered
into only one book all these years and accomplished nothing but becoming
phenomenally ignorant. All that's left is their trying to justify why they have
paid so much for so little for so many years.

Pity, that.
 >> Stay informed about: Photoshop recommendations 

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:01:33 -0600, BillGarrens
wrote in :

>Photoshop was left in the dust by many programs, long ago. ...

Most professionals would disagree with you.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John
 >> Stay informed about: Photoshop recommendations 

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:06:08 -0500, KatWoman wrote:

> "ray" wrote in message
>
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 16:59:10 -0500, nospam wrote:
>>
>>> In article , ray
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> > there is no restriction in functionality. it just expires after 30
>>>> > days.
>>>>
>>>> Geez - that would seem to be a major restriction!
>>>
>>> how much time do you need to evaluate it and decide if it is worth
>>> purchasing? 30 days is fairly generous; most people probably can
>>> decide within a week or two.
>>
>> Considering that most users take a week or two long class to learn how
>> to use photoshop - it does seem rather limiting.
>
> If you take a class the comps have educational copies already installed
> on the comps in the room
>
> no purchase other than course money is required also qualifies you to
> buy a cheaper and fully functional and identical program of PS at
> educational prices
>
> wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in PS
> users group and feel the need to make put downs?
>
> like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris

Excuse me? rec.photo.digital is NOT a "PS users group". And I'm not
putting anything down. Simply suggesting that there are other things
worth trying that won't cost an arm and a leg and will probably do all
most folks need.
 >> Stay informed about: Photoshop recommendations 

KatWoman schrieb:
>
> If you take a class the comps have educational copies already installed on
> the comps in the room
>
> no purchase other than course money is required
> also qualifies you to buy a cheaper and fully functional and identical
> program of PS at educational prices
>
nice to know...

> wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in PS
> users group and feel the need to make put downs?
>
This might be, because this post is crossposted in 4 different groups
(look at the headers) and not every of this groups is dedicated to
photoshop. But this is only my own clueless assumption.


> like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris
>
did someone diss photoshop? I've read the thread but I did not see
someone really saying something agains PS. Only people telling, that It
does not have to be photoshop since there are alternatives.

And just to finish this: Just because a software is used by the biggest
part of the audience it does not always mean that it is the best
software for everyone and anything.

For me personally: I can't (don't want to) afford PS. So instead of
using a pirated copy I'm just using Gimp. Maybe also because I'm using
linux

kruemi

--
Dimage A2, Agfa isolette
http://flickr.com/photos/kruemi
And a cool timekiller: http://www.starpirates.net/register.php?referer=9708
 >> Stay informed about: Photoshop recommendations 

On 27 Dec 2008 20:26:41 GMT, ray wrote in
:

>On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 15:06:08 -0500, KatWoman wrote:

>> wonder why gimp and free program fans who dislike PS hang out here in PS
>> users group and feel the need to make put downs?
>>
>> like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris
>
>Excuse me? rec.photo.digital is NOT a "PS users group". ...

This is being cross-posted to:
* adobe.photoshop.windows
* comp.graphics.apps.photoshop

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John
 >> Stay informed about: Photoshop recommendations 

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:31:45 +0100, Marco Tedaldi
wrote in
:

>KatWoman schrieb:

>> like Chevy drivers dissing Ferraris
>>
>did someone diss photoshop? ...

Shall we just say GIMP advocacy then? On Linux no less.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John
 >> Stay informed about: Photoshop recommendations 

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:17:31 -0800, John Navas
wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:01:33 -0600, BillGarrens
>wrote in :
>
>>Photoshop was left in the dust by many programs, long ago. ...
>
>Most professionals would disagree with you.

You would be correct if you say "some professionals would disagree with you."
Otherwise I would be just as correct by saying that "most professionals agree
with me." The ones that I know would agree with me.

In all my travels and in all I have met, rarely does "professional" equate to
"intelligent". Some just keep using what they were told to use long ago, none
the wiser. Many use it because it was and is the best tax write-off for their
business office and nothing more. That being a large reason for its original
start. Hardly a reason to advise the use of it today if someone is looking for
the best software available.
 >> Stay informed about: Photoshop recommendations