Photog assaulted by Brit cops gets 30,000pounds

On Dec 7, 4:22 pm, "Tim80" wrote:
> "RichA" wrote in message
>
>
>
> > In the U.S. he would have gotten $250,000-$500,000 for this.  If you
> > or I had done this, we'd be facing a couple years in jail.
>
> >http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Photographer_wins_30k_payou...
>
> He looks familiar.  Is this his daughter?http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/3923/51145593.jpg

Well, I thought that was pretty funny.
 >> Stay informed about: Photog assaulted by Brit cops gets 30,000pounds 

On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 14:09:24 -0800 (PST), RichA
wrote:

>In the U.S. he would have gotten $250,000-$500,000 for this. If you
>or I had done this, we'd be facing a couple years in jail.
>
>http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Photographer_wins_30k_payout_from_G20_police_update_1205pm_news_304236.html

What makes you think so? It was an out-of-court settlement. In a
settlement, both parties agree on the figure. Obviously, Hoffman felt
that 30,000 quid was sufficient compensation.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 >> Stay informed about: Photog assaulted by Brit cops gets 30,000pounds 

"RichA" wrote in message

> In the U.S. he would have gotten $250,000-$500,000 for this. If you
> or I had done this, we'd be facing a couple years in jail.
>
> http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Photographer_wins_30k_payout...om_G20_



He looks familiar. Is this his daughter?
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/3923/51145593.jpg
 >> Stay informed about: Photog assaulted by Brit cops gets 30,000pounds 

On Dec 7, 5:22 pm, Val Hallah wrote:
> On Dec 7, 11:18 pm, tony cooper wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 14:09:24 -0800 (PST), RichA
> > wrote:
>
> > >In the U.S. he would have gotten $250,000-$500,000 for this.  If you
> > >or I had done this, we'd be facing a couple years in jail.
>
> > >http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Photographer_wins_30k_payou....
>
> > What makes you think so?  It was an out-of-court settlement.  In a
> > settlement, both parties agree on the figure.  Obviously, Hoffman felt
> > that 30,000 quid was sufficient compensation.
>
> > --
> > Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
>
> 6k per tooth...doesn't say if they were original....30k not a bad xmas
> pressie in a recession though...

I doubt anyone would opt to get their teeth knocked out by a police
shield for $6k per tooth, unless they were economically desperate.
 >> Stay informed about: Photog assaulted by Brit cops gets 30,000pounds 

On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 07:09:11 -0800 (PST), Rich
wrote:

>On Dec 7, 5:22 pm, Val Hallah wrote:
>> On Dec 7, 11:18 pm, tony cooper wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 14:09:24 -0800 (PST), RichA
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > >In the U.S. he would have gotten $250,000-$500,000 for this.  If you
>> > >or I had done this, we'd be facing a couple years in jail.
>>
>> > >http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Photographer_wins_30k_payou...
>>
>> > What makes you think so?  It was an out-of-court settlement.  In a
>> > settlement, both parties agree on the figure.  Obviously, Hoffman felt
>> > that 30,000 quid was sufficient compensation.
>>
>> > --
>> > Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
>>
>> 6k per tooth...doesn't say if they were original....30k not a bad xmas
>> pressie in a recession though...
>
>I doubt anyone would opt to get their teeth knocked out by a police
>shield for $6k per tooth, unless they were economically desperate.

Newspaper reports often don't give all the pertinent information. The
settlement amount seems low for the damage, so there is probably
something we've not been told. Some culpability on the part of the
photographer, perhaps. Something that eroded the photographer's
bargaining position.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 >> Stay informed about: Photog assaulted by Brit cops gets 30,000pounds 

On 10-12-08 14:52 , tony cooper wrote:

> Something that eroded the photographer's
> bargaining position.

Yes, being in a country that does not have a record of outlandishly high
awards for personal damages is a start.

Also it was a settlement.

I recall reading somewhere (prob'y the NYT or WaPo) that, on average,
people who settle come out further ahead than if they go to a court
trial and jury settlement. Yes, there are some big jury awards - on the
other hand there are big disappointments as well - often below the level
of an "avoid civil court" settlement offer.

And a big jury award almost always faces an appeal.

--
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.
 >> Stay informed about: Photog assaulted by Brit cops gets 30,000pounds 

On 2010-12-08 15:07:37 -0800, Alan Browne
said:

> On 10-12-08 14:52 , tony cooper wrote:
>
>> Something that eroded the photographer's
>> bargaining position.
>
> Yes, being in a country that does not have a record of outlandishly
> high awards for personal damages is a start.
>
> Also it was a settlement.
>
> I recall reading somewhere (prob'y the NYT or WaPo) that, on average,
> people who settle come out further ahead than if they go to a court
> trial and jury settlement. Yes, there are some big jury awards - on
> the other hand there are big disappointments as well - often below the
> level of an "avoid civil court" settlement offer.
>
> And a big jury award almost always faces an appeal.

I have been involved in some IA investigations based on a "Citizen's
Complaint" where the officer concerned has been cleared of wrong doing,
yet after a cost benefit analysis the complainant has been offered a
settlement. In those cases the settlement is offered as the cost of
defending the action far exceeds the offer.
This usually ends up with a pissed off cop wondering why, if he/she had
been cleared was the settlement offered.

There have been times a greedy attorney or a greedy client going
against the advice of a more astute attorney, turns down the offer and
goes to Court and loses.
The cleared cop is usually happier with that outcome.

--
Regards,

Savageduck
 >> Stay informed about: Photog assaulted by Brit cops gets 30,000pounds 

On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 18:07:37 -0500, Alan Browne
wrote:

>On 10-12-08 14:52 , tony cooper wrote:
>
>> Something that eroded the photographer's
>> bargaining position.
>
>Yes, being in a country that does not have a record of outlandishly high
>awards for personal damages is a start.
>
>Also it was a settlement.

Didn't I point that out? Specifically?

Snipping is good thing, but snipping context that directly bears on
the reply is not.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
 >> Stay informed about: Photog assaulted by Brit cops gets 30,000pounds 

On Dec 8, 11:07 pm, Alan Browne
wrote:
> On 10-12-08 14:52 , tony cooper wrote:
>
> > Something that eroded the photographer's
> > bargaining position.
>
> Yes, being in a country that does not have a record of outlandishly high
> awards for personal damages is a start.
>
> Also it was a settlement.
>
> I recall reading somewhere (prob'y the NYT or WaPo) that, on average,
> people who settle come out further ahead than if they go to a court
> trial and jury settlement.

Sometimes a higher settlement can take much longer too, especially
here in the UK it seems.
A friend of mine won damages of around 10K for losing his job but that
settlement took 15 months.
he may have gotten another 3k but it could have gone on for another
year or more.
So he agreed on a settlement of 7K.
And when you're out of work with a mortgage sometimes you have debts
that need paying off NOW.
After he settled his living bills, he had 1k left over, he couldn't
afford another year of mounting debts.
 >> Stay informed about: Photog assaulted by Brit cops gets 30,000pounds 

On Dec 8, 2:52 pm, tony cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 07:09:11 -0800 (PST), Rich
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Dec 7, 5:22 pm, Val Hallah wrote:
> >> On Dec 7, 11:18 pm, tony cooper wrote:
>
> >> > On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 14:09:24 -0800 (PST), RichA
> >> > wrote:
>
> >> > >In the U.S. he would have gotten $250,000-$500,000 for this. If you
> >> > >or I had done this, we'd be facing a couple years in jail.
>
> >> > >http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Photographer_wins_30k_payou...
>
> >> > What makes you think so? It was an out-of-court settlement. In a
> >> > settlement, both parties agree on the figure. Obviously, Hoffman felt
> >> > that 30,000 quid was sufficient compensation.
>
> >> > --
> >> > Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
>
> >> 6k per tooth...doesn't say if they were original....30k not a bad xmas
> >> pressie in a recession though...
>
> >I doubt anyone would opt to get their teeth knocked out by a police
> >shield for $6k per tooth, unless they were economically desperate.
>
> Newspaper reports often don't give all the pertinent information.  The
> settlement amount seems low for the damage, so there is probably
> something we've not been told.  Some culpability on the part of the
> photographer, perhaps.  Something that eroded the photographer's
> bargaining position.
>
> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

No, I think it's just because they don't have large settlements in
countries other than the U.S. for these kinds of things.
You are expected to suck it up, for the good of the State.
 >> Stay informed about: Photog assaulted by Brit cops gets 30,000pounds 

On 10-12-08 18:21 , Savageduck wrote:
> On 2010-12-08 15:07:37 -0800, Alan Browne
> said:
>
>> On 10-12-08 14:52 , tony cooper wrote:
>>
>>> Something that eroded the photographer's
>>> bargaining position.
>>
>> Yes, being in a country that does not have a record of outlandishly
>> high awards for personal damages is a start.
>>
>> Also it was a settlement.
>>
>> I recall reading somewhere (prob'y the NYT or WaPo) that, on average,
>> people who settle come out further ahead than if they go to a court
>> trial and jury settlement. Yes, there are some big jury awards - on
>> the other hand there are big disappointments as well - often below the
>> level of an "avoid civil court" settlement offer.
>>
>> And a big jury award almost always faces an appeal.
>
> I have been involved in some IA investigations based on a "Citizen's
> Complaint" where the officer concerned has been cleared of wrong doing,
> yet after a cost benefit analysis the complainant has been offered a
> settlement. In those cases the settlement is offered as the cost of
> defending the action far exceeds the offer.
> This usually ends up with a pissed off cop wondering why, if he/she had
> been cleared was the settlement offered.
>
> There have been times a greedy attorney or a greedy client going against
> the advice of a more astute attorney, turns down the offer and goes to
> Court and loses.
> The cleared cop is usually happier with that outcome.

The public purse is not all that concerned with the happiness of cops -
of course you would know that more than most.

OTOH, most settlement agreements make the person receiving settlement
sign some sort of waiver and agreement not to talk about the case.

I suppose union agreements could be written to force the
city/county/state to "clear" accusations through the court if desired by
the cop (unless recanted by the accuser).

--
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.
 >> Stay informed about: Photog assaulted by Brit cops gets 30,000pounds 

On 2010-12-09 14:43:00 -0800, Alan Browne
said:

> On 10-12-08 18:21 , Savageduck wrote:
>> On 2010-12-08 15:07:37 -0800, Alan Browne
>> said:
>>
>>> On 10-12-08 14:52 , tony cooper wrote:
>>>
>>>> Something that eroded the photographer's
>>>> bargaining position.
>>>
>>> Yes, being in a country that does not have a record of outlandishly
>>> high awards for personal damages is a start.
>>>
>>> Also it was a settlement.
>>>
>>> I recall reading somewhere (prob'y the NYT or WaPo) that, on average,
>>> people who settle come out further ahead than if they go to a court
>>> trial and jury settlement. Yes, there are some big jury awards - on
>>> the other hand there are big disappointments as well - often below the
>>> level of an "avoid civil court" settlement offer.
>>>
>>> And a big jury award almost always faces an appeal.
>>
>> I have been involved in some IA investigations based on a "Citizen's
>> Complaint" where the officer concerned has been cleared of wrong doing,
>> yet after a cost benefit analysis the complainant has been offered a
>> settlement. In those cases the settlement is offered as the cost of
>> defending the action far exceeds the offer.
>> This usually ends up with a pissed off cop wondering why, if he/she had
>> been cleared was the settlement offered.
>>
>> There have been times a greedy attorney or a greedy client going against
>> the advice of a more astute attorney, turns down the offer and goes to
>> Court and loses.
>> The cleared cop is usually happier with that outcome.
>
> The public purse is not all that concerned with the happiness of cops -
> of course you would know that more than most.

Exactly.

>
> OTOH, most settlement agreements make the person receiving settlement
> sign some sort of waiver and agreement not to talk about the case.

Usually, but not always in the case of government
(Federal/State/County/Municipal) settlements.

>
> I suppose union agreements could be written to force the
> city/county/state to "clear" accusations through the court if desired
> by the cop (unless recanted by the accuser).

That is not going to happen. There is a set of rules set up to protect
the rights of an accused officer, or an officer who might be the
subject of an IA investigation; The "Public Safety Officer Procedural
Bill of Rights" or POBOR.
< http://www.porac.org/POBOR.html >

I have conducted and supervised many of these investigations, and
written many investigative reports which all have a conclusion based on
the evidence collected and examined. That will indicate that the
complaint/charge is "substantiated". "unsubstantiated", or
"inconclusive".
This conclusion is intended to be impartial and is usually written in a
detached, impartial style. If the investigator feels one area or
another needs being spoken to those are addressed as "Investigator's
Notes" or foot notes.
For example; This investigator found (subject/witness) to be less than
truthful in statements made in the interview on(date). Then reasons for
this remark are detailed.
If the case goes to Court the investigator can be, and has been called
as a witness. The investigation is as subject to impeachment as any
other document or evidence presented in Court, so it is not a matter to
be taken lightly.

--
Regards,

Savageduck
 >> Stay informed about: Photog assaulted by Brit cops gets 30,000pounds 

On 10-12-08 18:56 , tony cooper wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 18:07:37 -0500, Alan Browne
> wrote:
>
>> On 10-12-08 14:52 , tony cooper wrote:
>>
>>> Something that eroded the photographer's
>>> bargaining position.
>>
>> Yes, being in a country that does not have a record of outlandishly high
>> awards for personal damages is a start.
>>
>> Also it was a settlement.
>
> Didn't I point that out? Specifically?

Not in the context of what I said about it being a country (the UK)
where settlements, whether in court or to avoid court are generally much
less generous than in the US.

> Snipping is good thing, but snipping context that directly bears on
> the reply is not.

Neither the fact nor the intention as explained above.

Please untwist your knickers at your convenience.


--
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 >> Stay informed about: Photog assaulted by Brit cops gets 30,000pounds