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Next: Has Panasonic got it right after all?
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Since: Oct 29, 2005
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:47 am
Post subject: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K?
Archived from groups: rec>photo>digital (more info?)
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Hello Everyone,
Does anyone have thoughts about the Panasonic Lumix FZ30K? I had considered
buying the FZ20 a ways back, but now that the 30 is here, I'm thinking of
going with this particular model. It has a super-zoom, a leica lens,
anti-shake, 8MP, and is rather heavy, which I require, since my wife has
trouble using cameras that are so light that merely pushing the shutter
release causes camera wiggle. Also, I don't have the money to sink into a
digital SLR with lenses, and, with the FZ30K, I can go from macro to 12X
optical zoom, all in one package. My only concern is about low-light
performance. I know that the Canon 20D DSLR has good low-light performance,
but I don't have the money required to invest in such a system. Why are
point-and-shoot cameras typically noisier, detector-wise? One would think
that one could fit a low-noise detector into a P&S just as easily as one
could fit a high-noise detector. Also, if anyone has any thoughts on other
P&S digitals that meet the following criteria, please send along your
opinions:
1) high-zoom capability
2) anti-shake
3) at least 6 MP
4) good optical quality
5) fast on/off and shutter response
6) < $900 in price
7) NOT small in size or super-lightweight
Thanks for any thoughts,
Scott Speck |
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External
Since: Aug 12, 2005
Posts: 107
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:47 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Scott Speck wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
>
> Does anyone have thoughts about the Panasonic Lumix FZ30K? I had considered
> buying the FZ20 a ways back, but now that the 30 is here, I'm thinking of
> going with this particular model. It has a super-zoom, a leica lens,
> anti-shake, 8MP, and is rather heavy, which I require, since my wife has
> trouble using cameras that are so light that merely pushing the shutter
> release causes camera wiggle.
Here are some other 8mp image stabilised digicams:
Konica Minolta DiMage A2
Konica Minolta DiMage X1
Konica Minolta DiMage A200
Panasonic DMC-LX1
Nikon Coolpix 8800
Leica D-LUX 2
> Also, I don't have the money to sink into a
> digital SLR with lenses, and, with the FZ30K, I can go from macro to 12X
> optical zoom, all in one package. My only concern is about low-light
> performance. I know that the Canon 20D DSLR has good low-light performance,
> but I don't have the money required to invest in such a system. Why are
> point-and-shoot cameras typically noisier, detector-wise?
It is because of the size of the sensels on the sensor and live
preview.
Live preview heats the sensor (aparrently even the Sony DSC-R1 suffers
from this slightly) and adds electronic noise via heat-stress to the
on-chip processing electronics.
The sensel size (generally half the linear size of a DSLR APS sensel)
means that there is less area to catch photons with and less signal
that must be amplified more for the same sensitivity.
More signal amplification plus electronic noise equals greater
noticable noise in the final image.
> One would think
> that one could fit a low-noise detector into a P&S just as easily as one
> could fit a high-noise detector.
Unfortunately not, unless a larger format sensor is used.
This will also dictate the size (and weight) of the optics and then the
body needs to be bigger to attach it to.
The Sony DSC-R1 is the only current example, and it's pretty big. |
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Since: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 421
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:37 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Oct 29, 2005
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David, thanks very much for all the info. At this point, I've nearly
totally NIXED the FZ30, after I heard that it's biggest downfall is its
image quality and noise levels (which to me are of major importance). When
I read about the Sony dsc-r1, it sounds pretty nice. With the larger CMOS
detector, noise is lower, and it has a large-aperture Zeiss lens, so this
should be good for low-light levels. It has no anti-shake, but does it have
good macro capability, for closeups of things like flowers and insects? It
also has a heavy look and feel, a swiveling monitor, etc. It has less zoom
and no anti-shake compared to the FZ30, but I have a super-light tripod that
I can carry around with ease when it comes to anti-shake, and I think I
could do much better evening/city photography with the Sony.
Thanks for any info,
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "David J Taylor"
<david-taylor.RemoveThis@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid>
Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:37 AM
Subject: Re: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K?
> Scott, in case you didn't know, there is a newsgroup focussing on such
> cameras here:
>
> rec.photo.digital.zlr
>
> David
>
"David J Taylor"
<david-taylor.RemoveThis@blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid> wrote in
message news:x9J8f.139978$G8.3793@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Scott, in case you didn't know, there is a newsgroup focussing on such
> cameras here:
>
> rec.photo.digital.zlr
>
> David
> >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? |
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Since: Oct 29, 2005
Posts: 183
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Scott Speck wrote:
>
>...but I'm wondering if the FZ30 gives you that much
> more beyond the FZ20. For example, can you focus the FZ20 or the FZ30
> manually? In general, I'm not a major "megapixel junkie".
Both the FZ20 and the FZ30 have "fly-by-wire" manual focus rings on the
lens barrel. The FZ30 adds a mechanically-linked zoom ring on the lens
barrel. I've actually used an FZ10 with that manual focus system, and
it seemed really nice to use compared to the clunky manual focus on my
old Olympus C700. (The FZ30 has higher resolution in the EVF and the
LCD, which should help with manual focus accuracy.)
The review sites have done a pretty good job of enumerating the
differences between the FZ30 and its predecessors. The consensus
seems to be that Panasonic mostly fixed things that were sore points
with the previous designs. It's just too bad that they felt they
had to take it to 9Mp. It would have been a slam dunk if they
could have increased the pixel size a bit and the pixel count a
bit at the same time. I could have lived with 6 or 7 megapixels
and less talk about noise.
Paul Allen >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? |
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Since: Oct 11, 2005
Posts: 20
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Scott Speck wrote:
> David,
>
> You have raised a couple points -- that add-on lens is outrageously huge on
> the Sony. I suppose that I'm lamenting that I can't "have it all" with a
> non-dSLR digital camera. Believe it or not, I've even thought of getting
> TWO FZ20's, since they've really come down in price. My wife wants to shoot
> a lot of macro pictures, but I'm wondering if the FZ30 gives you that much
> more beyond the FZ20. For example, can you focus the FZ20 or the FZ30
> manually? In general, I'm not a major "megapixel junkie".
>
SNIP
I'd have to say, you're talking yourself into the proverbial corner -
you want a camera the size of a dSLR, with the low noise, high ISO
performance of a dSLR, the lens flexibility of a dSLR, and you're
willing to pay as much as you would for a dSLR..... but you don't want
a dSLR? Why not? Go for it - you'll not be sorry. >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? |
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Since: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 421
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:04 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Scott Speck wrote:
> David,
>
> You have raised a couple points -- that add-on lens is outrageously
> huge on the Sony. I suppose that I'm lamenting that I can't "have it
> all" with a non-dSLR digital camera. Believe it or not, I've even
> thought of getting TWO FZ20's, since they've really come down in
> price. My wife wants to shoot a lot of macro pictures, but I'm
> wondering if the FZ30 gives you that much more beyond the FZ20. For
> example, can you focus the FZ20 or the FZ30 manually? In general,
> I'm not a major "megapixel junkie".
Unless you regularly crop to small parts of the image 3, 4 or 5MP will
probably be enough. I've seen excellent A4 (about 11.5 x 8 inch) from my
wife's 3.2MP Nikon 990. No problem in getting more than one camera - I've
settled on the Panasonic FZ5 for general and telephoto use, and a Nikon
8400 for wide-angle use. I've given up manual focus in the FZ5, but the
auto-focus is more than adequate. My wife went for the FZ20 to complement
her Nikon 990, though, as the FZ5 wasn't available when she purchased.
The FZ5 has the ability to do macro at full zoom, so giving you a working
distance of about 1 metre.
Decision, decisions, decisions!
Best, try different cameras in the store and see which suits best.
David >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? |
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Since: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 421
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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ecm wrote:
[]
> I'd have to say, you're talking yourself into the proverbial corner -
> you want a camera the size of a dSLR, with the low noise, high ISO
> performance of a dSLR, the lens flexibility of a dSLR, and you're
> willing to pay as much as you would for a dSLR..... but you don't want
> a dSLR? Why not? Go for it - you'll not be sorry.
Which DSLR would you recommend. The original specification included an
image-stabilised 10x zoom, and a budget of USD $700. Can't be done!
Likely the lens alone would cost that much, if there was such a beast
available (although the DSLR is catching up).
David >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? |
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Since: Oct 11, 2005
Posts: 20
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David J Taylor wrote:
> ecm wrote:
> []
> > I'd have to say, you're talking yourself into the proverbial corner -
> > you want a camera the size of a dSLR, with the low noise, high ISO
> > performance of a dSLR, the lens flexibility of a dSLR, and you're
> > willing to pay as much as you would for a dSLR..... but you don't want
> > a dSLR? Why not? Go for it - you'll not be sorry.
>
> Which DSLR would you recommend. The original specification included an
> image-stabilised 10x zoom, and a budget of USD $700. Can't be done!
> Likely the lens alone would cost that much, if there was such a beast
> available (although the DSLR is catching up).
>
> David
True, $700 isn't much. However, you were talking about the Sony DSC-R1,
which will be priced at $1000. And no, it can't be done - although
it's very close. I'm saying I suspect you won't get what you really
want until you get a dSLR - and it'll be cheaper in the long run if you
just get it.
If you stretch to ~$1100-1200, then a Minolta 5D with a 18-200mm
(29-320mm equivalent) F/3.5-6.3 will give you everything you want -
you'd have 11X zoom, built in image stabilization and really decent
high ISO performance, along with a reasonable wide angle.
Unfortunately, this lens is not yet in stores, but it's supposed to be
here soon.
If you're unable to stretch above $700, then you can still get an
Olympus E-300 2-lens kit at Dell for ~$640 if you stack coupons; keep
an eye on the DPReview forums for info. It's not the best dSLR, you'll
forgo IS, but it's still a much better camera than the Pana FZ-30.
You'll get a range of 28-300mm, and the lenses in the kit are very
nice.
Anyways, good luck. I'm not mentioning Canon, Pentax or Nikon simply
because I don't know they'll be able to give you the range you want at
a reasonable price, but I could be wrong - maybe someone else could
point out some choices to you.
ECM >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? |
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Since: Aug 11, 2005
Posts: 421
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:11 am
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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ecm wrote:
> David J Taylor wrote:
>> ecm wrote:
>> []
>>> I'd have to say, you're talking yourself into the proverbial corner
>>> - you want a camera the size of a dSLR, with the low noise, high ISO
>>> performance of a dSLR, the lens flexibility of a dSLR, and you're
>>> willing to pay as much as you would for a dSLR..... but you don't
>>> want a dSLR? Why not? Go for it - you'll not be sorry.
>>
>> Which DSLR would you recommend. The original specification included
>> an image-stabilised 10x zoom, and a budget of USD $700. Can't be
>> done! Likely the lens alone would cost that much, if there was such
>> a beast available (although the DSLR is catching up).
>>
>> David
>
> True, $700 isn't much. However, you were talking about the Sony
> DSC-R1, which will be priced at $1000. And no, it can't be done -
> although it's very close. I'm saying I suspect you won't get what you
> really want until you get a dSLR - and it'll be cheaper in the long
> run if you just get it.
Well, the Sony I would have ruled out in any case, even if it were not for
the price, as a 10:1 zoom was required.
> If you stretch to ~$1100-1200, then a Minolta 5D with a 18-200mm
> (29-320mm equivalent) F/3.5-6.3 will give you everything you want -
> you'd have 11X zoom, built in image stabilization and really decent
> high ISO performance, along with a reasonable wide angle.
> Unfortunately, this lens is not yet in stores, but it's supposed to be
> here soon.
Sounds good - albeit 50% overbudget!
> If you're unable to stretch above $700, then you can still get an
> Olympus E-300 2-lens kit at Dell for ~$640 if you stack coupons; keep
> an eye on the DPReview forums for info. It's not the best dSLR, you'll
> forgo IS, but it's still a much better camera than the Pana FZ-30.
> You'll get a range of 28-300mm, and the lenses in the kit are very
> nice.
"A much better camera" - or just a "different" camera with different
characteristics and different target market place.
> Anyways, good luck. I'm not mentioning Canon, Pentax or Nikon simply
> because I don't know they'll be able to give you the range you want at
> a reasonable price, but I could be wrong - maybe someone else could
> point out some choices to you.
You are again confusing me with the OP, but you are right that there are
other brands to consider. I'm still of the opinion that for a 10:1 zoom,
not too small, the Panasonic FZ20 will take a lot of beating, particularly
when the limited budget is considered. Thanks for your input.
David >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? |
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Since: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Based on what you said you were looking for I don't think you can go wrong
with either the Panasonic FZ20 or the FZ30. I own both of them and have
never been so happy with a digital camera as I am with these.
I sold my Canon 20D and 4 lenses to buy the FZ20 and then the FZ30. I have
never been sorry I did. The Canon just got to the point that I couldn't
trust it or Canon. With their first firmware update killing many of them and
requiring the owners to send them to Canon for repair I just couldn't bring
myself to trust them.
I also didn't like the noiseless images the 20D produced. I like a bit of
noise in my images it helps them look more real. The ones form the 20D
looked like they were rendered in a 3D program. They looked fake.
HornBlower >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? |
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Since: Aug 21, 2005
Posts: 19
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 29-Oct-05 11:14, Scott Speck wrote:
> David, thanks very much for all the info. At this point, I've nearly
> totally NIXED the FZ30, after I heard that it's biggest downfall is its
> image quality and noise levels (which to me are of major importance). When
> I read about the Sony dsc-r1, it sounds pretty nice. With the larger CMOS
> detector, noise is lower, and it has a large-aperture Zeiss lens, so this
But unfortunately the examples posted suggested otherwise:
ISO 800 and 1600 on the R1 were completely useles!
> should be good for low-light levels. It has no anti-shake, but does it have
> good macro capability, for closeups of things like flowers and insects? It
> also has a heavy look and feel, a swiveling monitor, etc. It has less zoom
> and no anti-shake compared to the FZ30, but I have a super-light tripod that
> I can carry around with ease when it comes to anti-shake, and I think I
> could do much better evening/city photography with the Sony.
>
> Thanks for any info,
> Scott
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David J Taylor"
> <david-taylor DeleteThis @blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid>
> Newsgroups: rec.photo.digital
> Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2005 7:37 AM
> Subject: Re: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K?
>>Scott, in case you didn't know, there is a newsgroup focussing on such
>>cameras here:
>>
>> rec.photo.digital.zlr
>>
>>David
>
> "David J Taylor"
> <david-taylor DeleteThis @blueyonder.co.not-this-bit.nor-this-part.uk.invalid> wrote in
> message news:x9J8f.139978$G8.3793@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
>>Scott, in case you didn't know, there is a newsgroup focussing on such
>>cameras here:
>>
>> rec.photo.digital.zlr
>>
>>David
>>
>
>
> >> Stay informed about: Opinions on Panasonic FZ30K? |
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