Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:31:57 -0800, dumbtroll RemoveThis @live.com wrote:

>These will be mainly for temple and pyramid photos:
>
>
>http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/digital-cameras/nikon-d40x_product-details.html
>
>Or:
>
>http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/digital-cameras/canon-digital-rebel-xti-400d-with-lens_product-details.html
>
>
>
>I'll try to test drive these at my local camera store, just to see
>which one
>fits my hands better, but your input will definitely sway my
>decision.....


I own a Canon 30D and love it, but between the two cameras you are
looking at, I'd recommend the D40X - mainly for the spot metering (an
option seriously lacking in the Rebel). I use this a lot under many
different conditions and would'nt want to do without.

Also I have read that many people love and use the front, rear curtain
and slow sync flash options that the Canon lacks.

Bill
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D? 

dumbtroll DeleteThis @live.com wrote:

[Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]

Pretty much the same difference as between Pepsi and Coke or Ford and Chevy
or vi and emacs. Whatever runs in the family...

> I'll try to test drive these at my local camera store, just to see
> which one
> fits my hands better, but your input will definitely sway my
> decision.....

That it is the most important step. If you don't _feel_ comfortable with the
camera then it is no good for _you_.

My advise: also try a camera one step up, e.g. a D80. For many people the
D40-class is simply to small and too awkward to handle. It just doesn't fit
the hand.

jue
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D? 

On Nov 14, 3:23 pm, Bill <carver-rem....DeleteThis@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:31:57 -0800, dumbtr....DeleteThis@live.com wrote:
> >These will be mainly for temple and pyramid photos:
>
> >http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/digital-cameras/nikon-d40x_product-de...
>
> >Or:
>
> >http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/digital-cameras/canon-digital-rebel-x...
>
> >I'll try to test drive these at my local camera store, just to see
> >which one
> >fits my hands better, but your input will definitely sway my
> >decision.....
>
> I own a Canon 30D and love it, but between the two cameras you are
> looking at, I'd recommend the D40X - mainly for the spot metering (an
> option seriously lacking in the Rebel). I use this a lot under many
> different conditions and would'nt want to do without.
>

I believe the Canon 400D indeed DOES have spot
metering, except they call it "partial metering", which
uses a 9.5% area in the middle of the screen:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/page8.asp
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D? 

On Nov 14, 7:53 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <jurge....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> dumbtr....TakeThisOut@live.com wrote:
> >> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
> > Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
> > either of these cameras?
>
> No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.
>
> > My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
> > pic.....
>
> If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many people
> apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.
>
But clearly it's something people want, or it wouldn't be
on the more expensive 40D.

It's extremely handy for taking pics over the heads of a
crowd in front of you, or for doing a cool "snails-eye" view
without hugging the floor.

Hell, i might just get the 40D just for this reason!
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D? 

dumbtroll DeleteThis @live.com wrote:
> On Nov 14, 7:53 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <jurge... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>> dumbtr... DeleteThis @live.com wrote:
>>>> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
>>> Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
>>> either of these cameras?
>> No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.
>>
>>> My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
>>> pic.....
>> If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many people
>> apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.
>>
> But clearly it's something people want, or it wouldn't be
> on the more expensive 40D.
>
> It's extremely handy for taking pics over the heads of a
> crowd in front of you, or for doing a cool "snails-eye" view
> without hugging the floor.
>
> Hell, i might just get the 40D just for this reason!

It can be useful, but of course there is a trade-off when you're using
live-view.

What you absolutely want to avoid is any P&S camera that lacks an
optical or electronic viewfinder, or you'll be doing the
"hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise" all the time.

The G1, G2, G3, G5, & G6 were great with their articulating LCD, which
was the victim of decontenting on the G7 and the G9.

Anyway, the bottom line is that there is really no P&S camera that meets
your criteria. The few low-noise P&S cameras are not >=10 megapixel, and
the few >=10 megapixel P&S cameras have noise issues, plus other issues
as well, that eliminate them from consideration.

The question really comes down to which D-SLR to get. Personally, I
would get the 40D if at all possible, as it has a lot of advantages over
the 400D.
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D? 

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:06:18 -0800 (PST), dumbtroll.TakeThisOut@live.com <dumbtroll.TakeThisOut@live.com> wrote:
> On Nov 14, 3:27 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <jurge....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> dumbtr....TakeThisOut@live.com wrote:
>>
>> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
>>
>> Pretty much the same difference as between Pepsi and Coke or Ford and Chevy
>> or vi and emacs. Whatever runs in the family...
>>
>> > I'll try to test drive these at my local camera store, just to see
>> > which one
>> > fits my hands better, but your input will definitely sway my
>> > decision.....
>>
>> That it is the most important step. If you don't _feel_ comfortable with the
>> camera then it is no good for _you_.
>>
>> My advise: also try a camera one step up, e.g. a D80. For many people the
>> D40-class is simply to small and too awkward to handle. It just doesn't fit
>> the hand.
>>
>> jue
>
> Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
> either of these cameras?

No. Some DSLRs can do that (it's a feature usually called Live View or
something similar), but neither the D40 nor the 400D offer it. For
Canon, you'd need the 40D and for Nikon the brand-new D300. In both
cases, those are bodies that are quite a bit more expensive than the
ones you are considering.

-dms
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D? 

dumbtroll.DeleteThis@live.com wrote:
>> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
> Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
> either of these cameras?

No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.

> My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
> pic.....

If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many people
apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.

jue
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D? 

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:40:24 -0800 (PST), dumbtroll DeleteThis @live.com wrote:

>On Nov 14, 7:53 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <jurge... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>> dumbtr... DeleteThis @live.com wrote:
>> >> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
>> > Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
>> > either of these cameras?
>>
>> No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.
>>
>> > My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
>> > pic.....
>>
>> If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many people
>> apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.
>>
> But clearly it's something people want, or it wouldn't be
>on the more expensive 40D.
>
> It's extremely handy for taking pics over the heads of a
>crowd in front of you, or for doing a cool "snails-eye" view
>without hugging the floor.
>
> Hell, i might just get the 40D just for this reason!
>

Some (many? most? all?) of the dSLR advocates in these newsgroups are fairly
immature and inexperienced when it comes to cameras and what any decent
photographer requires of their tools. Many of them posting here have never been
nearer to any camera than a review of one online, then they offer advice as if
they've used one all their life. (The few real photographers can spot those
trolls in a heartbeat, a task not so easy for the newcomer.) Others are just
insecure dSLR purchasers and trying to justify why they spent so much money. Not
being similarly crippled as they are in my photography experience is exactly why
I have always gone with P&S cameras when I switched from film to digital. For
all the additional things that any decent LCD or EVF makes available to the
craft. Those that choose to remain ignorant and inexperienced will never know of
their benefits.

True, a dSLR may not be for you, because the same image quality can be had in
many inexpensive, lighter-weight, smaller, and fuller-featured P&S cameras. But
if you already know of the benefits of a "live-view" LCD or EVF for accurate
composition (100% framing accuracy, no 95% or 97% approximations), for difficult
shooting situations, an amplified view for focusing and composition in extremely
dim light levels, needing to see shutter-speed effects in real-time before you
even press the shutter, the enormous amount of data that can be displayed on an
EVF or LCD screen (live histograms, under/over-exposure overlays telling you
what portions of your image are out of bounds), etc., then don't settle for a
camera with less no matter what camera design you buy.

Before making your choice check out these links to see if any of this might be
important to you:

http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK

An overview of all the additional features
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_firmware_usage

You will find options and capabilities on any of the supported P&S cameras with
an LCD or EVF that aren't even possible on any dSLR made today, with or without
"live-view" displays. Not even a new $12,000 dSLR can do what a CHDK camera can
do today.
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D? 

On Nov 15, 4:27 am, Chris Malcolm <c....DeleteThis@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> "Jurgen Exner" <jurge....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > dumbtr....DeleteThis@live.com wrote:
> >>> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
> >> Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
> >> either of these cameras?
> > No, any dSLR I know of still has an actual optical view finder.
> >> My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
> >> pic.....
> > If you prefer the hold-camera-still-at-arms-length exercise (as many people
> > apparently do) then dSLR are clearly not for you.
>
> I don't think they prefer holding the camera at arms length, it's just
> that they can't focus their eyes any closer than that.
>

Fact: I don't think i have EVER looked through
the optical viewfinder of my powershot G3 to take a picture!

It's almost unnatural to do so, when you get a much bigger
image
on the LCD.

I'm very close to throwing up my arms, and buying the 40D!
but the
screen is probably not rotatable like the G3.
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D? 

wilson granger (wgranger12978@yahoo.com) wrote:

> Some (many? most? all?) of the dSLR advocates in these newsgroups are
> fairly immature and inexperienced when it comes to cameras and what
[...]

Thank you very much for the deep insight you are offering in your
very first posting ever to this NG. You surely must have a lot of
experience.

jue
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D? 

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:16:26 GMT, "Jürgen Exner" <jurgenex.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

>wilson granger (wgranger12978@yahoo.com) wrote:
>
>> Some (many? most? all?) of the dSLR advocates in these newsgroups are
>> fairly immature and inexperienced when it comes to cameras and what
>[...]
>
>Thank you very much for the deep insight you are offering in your
>very first posting ever to this NG. You surely must have a lot of
>experience.
>
>jue
>

Yes, isn't it a shame when even a first time poster knows more than you ever
will. Catch up.

Oh wait, you can't. Try buying a camera sometime for a start.
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D? 

<dumbtroll DeleteThis @live.com> wrote in message
news:5d21feaa-c659-4078-a511-71e4ff2e395e@w28g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 14, 3:23 pm, Bill <carver-rem... DeleteThis @bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:31:57 -0800, dumbtr... DeleteThis @live.com wrote:
>> >These will be mainly for temple and pyramid photos:
>>
>> >http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/digital-cameras/nikon-d40x_product-de...
>>
>> >Or:
>>
>> >http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/digital-cameras/canon-digital-rebel-x...
>>
>> >I'll try to test drive these at my local camera store, just to see
>> >which one
>> >fits my hands better, but your input will definitely sway my
>> >decision.....
>>
>> I own a Canon 30D and love it, but between the two cameras you are
>> looking at, I'd recommend the D40X - mainly for the spot metering (an
>> option seriously lacking in the Rebel). I use this a lot under many
>> different conditions and would'nt want to do without.
>>
>
> I believe the Canon 400D indeed DOES have spot
> metering, except they call it "partial metering", which
> uses a 9.5% area in the middle of the screen:
>
> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/page8.asp


That´s not a spot, that´s a stain.
D40x: 3.5 mm or 2.5% of the screen...

--
"I don´t need a camera,
I have a photographic memory..."
Sosumi
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D? 

<dumbtroll.TakeThisOut@live.com> wrote in message
news:643255b1-d4ae-4b09-afca-07bc265853df@w28g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 14, 3:27 pm, "Jürgen Exner" <jurge....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
> dumbtr....TakeThisOut@live.com wrote:
>
> [Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?]
>
> Pretty much the same difference as between Pepsi and Coke or Ford and
> Chevy
> or vi and emacs. Whatever runs in the family...
>
> > I'll try to test drive these at my local camera store, just to see
> > which one
> > fits my hands better, but your input will definitely sway my
> > decision.....
>
> That it is the most important step. If you don't _feel_ comfortable with
> the
> camera then it is no good for _you_.
>
> My advise: also try a camera one step up, e.g. a D80. For many people the
> D40-class is simply to small and too awkward to handle. It just doesn't
> fit
> the hand.
>
> jue

Can you compose the photo only using the LCD screen on
either of these cameras?

My Powershot G3 can do this, and it's a liberating way to take a
pic.....

The Olympus E-410 and 510 can, but the sensors are quite smaller, which you
pay for in losing dynamic range. I brought my 510 back to the store after I
saw the results...
Not cheap either and the lenses are more expensive than either Nikon or
Canon.

--
"I don´t need a camera,
I have a photographic memory..."
Sosumi
 >> Stay informed about: Nikon D40x Versus Canon Rebel XTi 400D?