Newbie Question About Color Balance Problem in D70s ?

"Magnusfarce" <mra_brimstone.DeleteThis@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:N_SdnRzG5f2ztSjYnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@adelphia.com...

>I recently acquired a D70s and used it to shoot some indoor sporting event
>pictures this weekend that I'm not satisfied with. At times, with no
>adjustment to any camera settings, the color tone shifted back and forth
>between a very cool or blue tone to a rather warm or yellow overall tone.
>I suspect that this has something to do with the automatic color balance
>features of the camera (perhaps a slight shift in background between
>pictures is causing this to happen). Can someone confirm if this is the
>area I need to study, and if so, recommend a good article on line where I
>can learn more about it? TIA

I don't like the sound of "auto colour balance" and have never even tried it
with my d70s as just the sound of it sounds like trouble. Simply dial in
the WB on the camera as you can fine tune it later in Capture (or whatever
raw converter you use).

cheers adrian www.boliston.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie Question About Color Balance Problem in D70s ? 

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 >> Stay informed about: Newbie Question About Color Balance Problem in D70s ? 

OP here -

Thanks for the thoughts. I probably should have mentioned that one of the
most obvious cases of this shift in color occurred in a pair of consecutive
shots taken not more than maybe a second apart with the same background.
I'd be happy to e-mail them to one of you for inspection if you think it
would be helpful. Is it likely that this is a problem with the camera?
(BTW, I shoot in a somewhat compressed mode for things like this, as opposed
to raw.)

- Magnusfarce


"Magnusfarce" <mra_brimstone.DeleteThis@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:N_SdnRzG5f2ztSjYnZ2dnUVZ_hynnZ2d@adelphia.com...
>I recently acquired a D70s and used it to shoot some indoor sporting event
>pictures this weekend that I'm not satisfied with. At times, with no
>adjustment to any camera settings, the color tone shifted back and forth
>between a very cool or blue tone to a rather warm or yellow overall tone.
>I suspect that this has something to do with the automatic color balance
>features of the camera (perhaps a slight shift in background between
>pictures is causing this to happen). Can someone confirm if this is the
>area I need to study, and if so, recommend a good article on line where I
>can learn more about it? TIA
>
> - Magnusfarce
>
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie Question About Color Balance Problem in D70s ? 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie Question About Color Balance Problem in D70s ? 

Thanks, I'll look into that. May have more questions as a result.

- Magnusfarce


"Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!)" <egruf_usenet2.TakeThisOut@cox.net> wrote in message
news:fnmbr213e01qr7gnhd5juvil9gh0h1kuch@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:26:16 -0800, in rec.photo.digital "Magnusfarce"
> <mra_brimstone.TakeThisOut@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>>OP here -
>>
>>Thanks for the thoughts. I probably should have mentioned that one of the
>>most obvious cases of this shift in color occurred in a pair of
>>consecutive
>>shots taken not more than maybe a second apart with the same background.
>>I'd be happy to e-mail them to one of you for inspection if you think it
>>would be helpful. Is it likely that this is a problem with the camera?
>>(BTW, I shoot in a somewhat compressed mode for things like this, as
>>opposed
>>to raw.)
>
> Then I'd guess you where using spot or center-weighted metering.
> --
> Ed Ruf (Usenet2@EdwardGRuf.com)
> http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie Question About Color Balance Problem in D70s ? 

Magnusfarce wrote:
> Thanks, I'll look into that. May have more questions as a result.
>
> - Magnusfarce

Changing metering pattern doesn't affect white balance, only exposure.

Were you shooting under fluorescent lights?
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie Question About Color Balance Problem in D70s ? 

"Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!)" <egruf_usenet2.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote in message
news:crlar25qtsnc7lgjh4r389ributgth7c71@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:42:28 -0000, in rec.photo.digital "Adrian Boliston"
> <adrian.RemoveThis@boliston.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Simply dial in
>>the WB on the camera as you can fine tune it later in Capture (or whatever
>>raw converter you use).
>
> If you are shooting and processing raw, it matters not what WB setting one
> chooses in the camera itself.

I aim to get it fairly close using the camera settings so that when I
preview in Nikon View 6 I get something that looks fairly natural.

cheers adrian www.boliston.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie Question About Color Balance Problem in D70s ? 

This took place in a large gymnasium-type building set up with decent
lighting, but honestly, I never thought to look up. (Guess I need to get
into the habit.)

If I can find out, I'll post. In situations where lighting can be properly
identified, can a filter be used to restore neutral white balance, or would
that be done better through the camera WB settings? Should I be able to
look at a ceiling light and identify its type by color, either now or with
practice?

- Magnusfarce (OP)


"acl" <achilleaslazarides.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1169586692.284837.220040@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Magnusfarce wrote:
>> Thanks, I'll look into that. May have more questions as a result.
>>
>> - Magnusfarce
>
> Changing metering pattern doesn't affect white balance, only exposure.
>
> Were you shooting under fluorescent lights?
>
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie Question About Color Balance Problem in D70s ? 

Magnusfarce wrote:
> This took place in a large gymnasium-type building set up with decent
> lighting, but honestly, I never thought to look up. (Guess I need to get
> into the habit.)
>
> If I can find out, I'll post. In situations where lighting can be properly
> identified, can a filter be used to restore neutral white balance, or would
> that be done better through the camera WB settings? Should I be able to
> look at a ceiling light and identify its type by color, either now or with
> practice?

A filter *can* be used to restore the white-balance (the issue isn't
*neutral*, exactly; the issue is matching the settings of the camera,
and ideally matching the ordinary state of the sensor). Filters for
tungsten lighting are common and quite standard and work well. Filters
for fluorescent are much more problematic, because there are so many
kinds. And often the bulbs in an area aren't all the same.

There are drawbacks to filters, the most obvious being that they steal a
lot of light (nearly 2 stops for tungsten/daylight). They also make the
viewfinder that much darker.

Almost nobody bothers with color correction filters in digital. In
theory, though, and especially for drastic changes like tungsten, it
will yield a better picture. In tungsten, the blue channel is generally
driven to the point where it's essentially functioning at a higher
(noisier) ISO, and it's still underexposed.
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie Question About Color Balance Problem in D70s ? 

Magnusfarce wrote:
> This took place in a large gymnasium-type building set up with decent
> lighting, but honestly, I never thought to look up. (Guess I need to get
> into the habit.)
>
> If I can find out, I'll post. In situations where lighting can be properly
> identified, can a filter be used to restore neutral white balance, or would
> that be done better through the camera WB settings? Should I be able to
> look at a ceiling light and identify its type by color, either now or with
> practice?
>

I don't know if people can judge light colour accurately, I certainly
can't. You can white balance using a white/gray card (your camera has a
setting called custom WB or something like that), or by using predefined
settings.

Using a filter (instead of just WB in camera) will have the advantage of
reducing the imbalance in exposures between different channels [thus
noise in one of the channels], but the disadvantage of requiring higher
ISOs or exposure times (or faster apertures). If you don't understand
this paragraph, ask!


> - Magnusfarce (OP)
>
>
> "acl" <achilleaslazarides.RemoveThis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1169586692.284837.220040@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>Magnusfarce wrote:
>>>Thanks, I'll look into that. May have more questions as a result.
>>>
>>> - Magnusfarce
>>Changing metering pattern doesn't affect white balance, only exposure.
>>
>>Were you shooting under fluorescent lights?
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie Question About Color Balance Problem in D70s ? 

I found a possible explanation for the color balance shift at Ken Rockwell's
website. In his article "How to Shoot Sports", he states that the rapid
flicker of flourescent or halide lights caused by their 60 hz power source
also causes flickering of color as well. Our eyes don't pick it up, but at
higher shutter speeds, the camera can and will sometimes produce white
balance changes from frame to frame. Any thoughts on this?

- Magnusfarce (OP)



"Magnusfarce" <magnusfarce762.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:jJSdncoR0evU8ivYnZ2dnUVZ_vWtnZ2d@adelphia.com...
> Thanks, I'll look into that. May have more questions as a result.
>
> - Magnusfarce
>
>
> "Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!)" <egruf_usenet2.TakeThisOut@cox.net> wrote in
> message news:fnmbr213e01qr7gnhd5juvil9gh0h1kuch@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:26:16 -0800, in rec.photo.digital "Magnusfarce"
>> <mra_brimstone.TakeThisOut@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>>>OP here -
>>>
>>>Thanks for the thoughts. I probably should have mentioned that one of
>>>the
>>>most obvious cases of this shift in color occurred in a pair of
>>>consecutive
>>>shots taken not more than maybe a second apart with the same background.
>>>I'd be happy to e-mail them to one of you for inspection if you think it
>>>would be helpful. Is it likely that this is a problem with the camera?
>>>(BTW, I shoot in a somewhat compressed mode for things like this, as
>>>opposed
>>>to raw.)
>>
>> Then I'd guess you where using spot or center-weighted metering.
>> --
>> Ed Ruf (Usenet2@EdwardGRuf.com)
>> http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie Question About Color Balance Problem in D70s ? 

On Jan 25, 9:43 am, "Magnusfarce" <magnusfarce... DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
> I found a possible explanation for the color balance shift at Ken Rockwell's
> website. In his article "How to Shoot Sports", he states that the rapid
> flicker of flourescent or halide lights caused by their 60 hz power source
> also causes flickering of color as well. Our eyes don't pick it up, but at
> higher shutter speeds, the camera can and will sometimes produce white
> balance changes from frame to frame. Any thoughts on this?

Er... did you read the reply I wrote?

On second thought, I asked if it was fluorescent, but didn't say why.
And you didn't ask, so forgot to explain. Oops!

Anyway. Can you put a couple of the affected shots somewhere for us to
look at?
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie Question About Color Balance Problem in D70s ? 

Note from a lighting guy:
Every photographer should look up a light bulb maker (GE, Phillips,
Sylvania/Osram, etc.) and find the "spectral distribution" charts for
various light types. These are much like a histogram for a light bulb.
Only tungsten and daylight are smooth across the rainbow.

http://www.gelighting.com/na/business_lighting/education_resources/lea...about_l

You may not be able to judge the color without a comparison but if you
can identify the basic type of lights you'll know what your up against.
White balance just shifts the overall color perception and doesn't
account for the true nature of the source.

Richard Reid, LC
PS LEDs are comming...

On Jan 24, 10:45 am, acl <achilleaslazari....TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Magnusfarce wrote:
> > This took place in a large gymnasium-type building set up with decent
> >lighting, but honestly, I never thought to look up. (Guess I need to get
> > into the habit.)
>
> > If I can find out, I'll post. In situations wherel ighting can be properly
> > identified, can a filter be used to restore neutral white balance, or would
> > that be done better through the camera WB settings? Should I be able to
> > look at a ceilinglightand identify its type by color, either now or with
> > practice?I don't know if people can judgelightcolour accurately, I certainly
> can't. You can white balance using a white/gray card (your camera has a
> setting called custom WB or something like that), or by using predefined
> settings.
>
> Using a filter (instead of just WB in camera) will have the advantage of
> reducing the imbalance in exposures between different channels [thus
> noise in one of the channels], but the disadvantage of requiring higher
> ISOs or exposure times (or faster apertures). If you don't understand
> this paragraph, ask!
>
>
>
> > - Magnusfarce (OP)
>
> > "acl" <achilleaslazari....TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:1169586692.284837.220040@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >>Magnusfarce wrote:
> >>>Thanks, I'll look into that. May have more questions as a result.
>
> >>> - Magnusfarce
> >>Changing metering pattern doesn't affect white balance, only exposure.
>
> >>Were you shooting under fluorescentlights?- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie Question About Color Balance Problem in D70s ?