Low self-discharge NiMH batteries?

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote in message

> Can anybody relate their experience with the low self-discharge NiMH
> batteries
> out there? In particular, I am interested in the Sony Eneloop and Rayovac
> Hybrid batteries which are 2000mAh and 2100mAh respectively.
>
> Please indicate which charger you use with these batteries and if
> applicable,
> how you charge the batteries.
>
> I am asking the question here because photographers tend to be large
> consumers
> of NiMH batteries and that is indeed how I use them in some cases (like my
> Nikon SB-600 flash).
>
> I am looking for something more real world, as most of the postings about
> these batteries are vague or unclear.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> --
> Thomas T. Veldhouse
> Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
>
>

2100mAh Hybrios work fine in my Pentax K100D DSLR, an old Nissin 360TW
flashgun, and an Olympus C750 digicam. It's nice to just 'know' that
they'll be OK when left in the camera/flash for a few weeks even if they had
been well used previously but still had charge left in them. I use a
Uniross smart charger that charges 4 in 2 pairs at 1 amp constant current
for as long as it takes then changes over to a trickle charge of 1 amp
pulsed (about 1 second in 16). I haven't noticed any problems at all with
charging in pairs but I do keep my batteries in sets of 4 and occasionally
discharge them all individually to 1 volt in a home made contraption to keep
them balanced.
 >> Stay informed about: Low self-discharge NiMH batteries? 

Ï "Thomas T. Veldhouse" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá

> Can anybody relate their experience with the low self-discharge NiMH
batteries
> out there? In particular, I am interested in the Sony Eneloop and Rayovac
> Hybrid batteries which are 2000mAh and 2100mAh respectively.
>
> Please indicate which charger you use with these batteries and if
applicable,
> how you charge the batteries.
>
> I am asking the question here because photographers tend to be large
consumers
> of NiMH batteries and that is indeed how I use them in some cases (like my
> Nikon SB-600 flash).
>
> I am looking for something more real world, as most of the postings about
> these batteries are vague or unclear.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
I'm not using AAs anymore for my new nytech www.nytech.de has proprietary Li
ion batteries, but I use Sanyo regular NiMHs for my pocket torch which is in
my electrician's toolbox and they have kept their charge for many months.I
have a dumb 150 mA MiNW charger that came with 4 1500 mAh NiMHs that I use
for my little radio at work...That radio with 2 700 mAh Sanyo NiCD run for
2-3 days @ 8hs only....



--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
 >> Stay informed about: Low self-discharge NiMH batteries? 

I have been using the Eneloops for a while now. I no longer have to
top them off to assure adequate voltage for my sporadic camera use.
The ones in the camera have been there since January. I have used the
camera about four times since then. I could never do this with 2500mah
Energizer NIMH batteries.

Any charger will do but I have found the best system for me is to just
use a cheap 150ma dumb charger plugged into a timer. Set the timer
for one or two hours a day and forget about it. I use NIMH AA's for
many different household items. I keep them paired and always
have a topped off set ready even if they are just the older NIMH type.

The low self discharge Eneloops that rate at 2000mah are still a
better overall choice than the 2500mah standard NIMH. I still use
the standard NIMH batteries but when it's time to replace them I'll
go with the Eneloops.
 >> Stay informed about: Low self-discharge NiMH batteries? 

Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> Can anybody relate their experience with the low self-discharge NiMH batteries
> out there? In particular, I am interested in the Sony Eneloop and Rayovac
> Hybrid batteries which are 2000mAh and 2100mAh respectively.
>
> Please indicate which charger you use with these batteries and if applicable,
> how you charge the batteries.
>
> I am asking the question here because photographers tend to be large consumers
> of NiMH batteries and that is indeed how I use them in some cases (like my
> Nikon SB-600 flash).
>
> I am looking for something more real world, as most of the postings about
> these batteries are vague or unclear.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>

This is about as real world as I can get:
Purchased set of 4 Eneloop from Ritz Camera for $12 and put in camera
10/6/06 as is. Camera is Canon A95
Removed/recharged 12/3/06 after 652 shots - mixed flash/no flash, lcd
mostly off.
That's it, currently 81 shots and still in camera.

Purchase 4 Hybrid AAA. Single cell in .mp3 player. Fine with no charge,
less hours than spec calls for with Alkaline. Never tracked Alkalines
carefully but suspect they don't meet spec either.
Charger is 4 cell individual monitored from Green Batteries, but any
charger will do, although this one is relatively inexpensive and works
well. I need to charge single cell at times.
See http://www.greenbatteries.com/nibachwilcdd.html
Dave Cohen
 >> Stay informed about: Low self-discharge NiMH batteries? 

On Thu, 24 May 2007 14:26:29 GMT, Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:

> Can anybody relate their experience with the low self-discharge NiMH batteries
> out there? In particular, I am interested in the Sony Eneloop and Rayovac
> Hybrid batteries which are 2000mAh and 2100mAh respectively.
>
> Please indicate which charger you use with these batteries and if applicable,
> how you charge the batteries.

SANYO Eneloop, not Sony. I've been charging mine in a little Sony
charger, though. <g> But I've also used several other brands of
chargers with no problems. The packaging I've seen in a couple of
places say that they can be charged in any well designed NiMH
charger so there should be no need to get a special charger for
Eneloops or Hybrids or the similar batteries from other battery
manufacturers. They don't need any different charging technique
than regular NiMH batteries either. What you have to avoid is the
same thing that kills all NiCD and NiMH batteries, using them too
long or leaving them in devices that consume appreciable current
even when powered off. Often devices will keep operating even after
the first cell goes flat, and that'll kill it for sure. This is
more likely to happen with cells that aren't closely matched in
capacity, and even cells that are closely matched when new, will get
further and further apart as they age.

FWIW, any halfway decent "smart" charger should do a good job,
with the cheaper, slower chargers heating the cells a bit less, and
so contributing to slightly greater battery life. For those that
like to keep a supply of charged batteries on hand, these slow
chargers are usually adequate, since the batteries don't run down if
they're charged and sit unused for a couple of months. If an
unexpected need for fresh batteries arises, you don't have to pop
the stored batteries back in the charger to insure that they've not
gone flat while sitting unused.


> I am asking the question here because photographers tend to be
> large consumers of NiMH batteries and that is indeed how I use
> them in some cases (like my Nikon SB-600 flash).

It depends on how you use the flash. If you use it heavily, such
that any type of rechargeable battery would have to be recharged at
least every week or two, there would be no need to worry about
battery self-discharge, and you'd be better off with regular, higher
capacity NiMH batteries that would provide many more shots per
charge than Eneloops. Quoting from another message I posted about
an hour ago :

> . . . I'll mention some of Nikon's data for its SB-600 flash. The minimum
> number of full power flashes given for alkalines is 200, 400 for lithium,
> 90 for 1,000mAh NiCd and 220 for 2,000mAh NiMH. Since it's hard to
> find 2,000mAh NiMH batteries these days, change it to about 300 full
> power flashes for today's 2,700mAh batteries.

The Eneloops are a match for the regular 2,000mAh NiMH batteries
mentioned in the manual, so they'd be good for up to about 220
flashes per charge (but *don't* do it - see below). People that
would take at least a couple of months to take that many full power
flash shots would find Eneloops to be a good solution. For this
usage, higher capacity regular NiMH batteries wouldn't be a good
choice since due to self discharge, over several months their total
usable capacity would probably provide a good deal fewer flashes
than the Eneloops.

The SB-600 manual states that the 220 flashes per charge are
achieved when the batteries are used to near exhaustion, when the
recycle time approaches 30 seconds. That's dangerous territory for
rechargeables, which can be damaged if all four cells don't have
very closely matched capacities, and one of them goes flat before
the others. Not a problem for replaceable alkalines, but with NiMH
batteries, I'd replace them with a fresh set when the recycle time
started to exceed about 10 seconds or so.

For your SB-600, whether you'd be better off with a fast or slow
charger depends on the rate you take flash pictures, and if you'd be
snapping away at over 500 shots per day, whether you'd prefer
traveling with one extra set of batteries and a charger, or no
charger, but with 2, 3 or more extra sets of NiMH batteries. Also
note that the type of shooting can make a big difference in battery
requirements. The above is all about taking full power flashes.
For fill flash, the number of flashes available per charge can
increase dramatically, and the batteries might last all day for
close to 1,000 shots without needing to be changed. Here,
experience is the best guide. What works for you won't necessarily
work for others, and vice-versa. It's best to be prepared though,
with plenty of spares batteries and a charger if you're not shooting
for your own personal pleasure.
 >> Stay informed about: Low self-discharge NiMH batteries? 

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote in message

> Can anybody relate their experience with the low self-discharge NiMH
> batteries
> out there? In particular, I am interested in the Sony Eneloop and Rayovac
> Hybrid batteries which are 2000mAh and 2100mAh respectively.
>
> Please indicate which charger you use with these batteries and if
> applicable,
> how you charge the batteries.
>
> I am asking the question here because photographers tend to be large
> consumers
> of NiMH batteries and that is indeed how I use them in some cases (like my
> Nikon SB-600 flash).
>
> I am looking for something more real world, as most of the postings about
> these batteries are vague or unclear.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
> --
> Thomas T. Veldhouse
> Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
>
>
I bought some Rayovac "Hybrids" in January and put them in my two cameras a
few weeks later. It is nearing the end of May and they are still on the
factory charge! AWSOME (Does that get the point across?) I'm not a heavy
camera user. A couple hundred shots on each camera since installing the
Hybrids. Because I shoot 200 shots over a stretch of 3 or 4 months, the
Hybrids are a perfect match for me. If you have to charge your batteries
every 2 or three weeks, the long shelf life batteries may not be ideal. In
that case look for a higher amp hour Ni-Mh.

I saw Target stores have 2AA and 2AAA Hybrids with charger for $10. Don't
know if sale is still good.

These batteries are new technology so the number of recharges and my
question of if the long shelf life will still be effective as the battery
ages is unknown.
John
 >> Stay informed about: Low self-discharge NiMH batteries? 

Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> Can anybody relate their experience with the low self-discharge NiMH batteries
> out there? In particular, I am interested in the Sony Eneloop and Rayovac
> Hybrid batteries which are 2000mAh and 2100mAh respectively.
>
> Please indicate which charger you use with these batteries and if applicable,
> how you charge the batteries.
>
> I am asking the question here because photographers tend to be large consumers
> of NiMH batteries and that is indeed how I use them in some cases (like my
> Nikon SB-600 flash).
>
> I am looking for something more real world, as most of the postings about
> these batteries are vague or unclear.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
I bought some Rayovac 2500 mAH last year, and I'm very happy
with them. I've recharged them with inexpensive Kodak and
Energizer chargers.
 >> Stay informed about: Low self-discharge NiMH batteries? 

JohnR66 wrote:
> "Thomas T. Veldhouse" wrote in message
>
>> Can anybody relate their experience with the low self-discharge NiMH
>> batteries
>> out there? In particular, I am interested in the Sony Eneloop and Rayovac
>> Hybrid batteries which are 2000mAh and 2100mAh respectively.
>>
>> Please indicate which charger you use with these batteries and if
>> applicable,
>> how you charge the batteries.
>>
>> I am asking the question here because photographers tend to be large
>> consumers
>> of NiMH batteries and that is indeed how I use them in some cases (like my
>> Nikon SB-600 flash).
>>
>> I am looking for something more real world, as most of the postings about
>> these batteries are vague or unclear.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thomas T. Veldhouse
>> Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
>>
>>
> I bought some Rayovac "Hybrids" in January and put them in my two cameras a
> few weeks later. It is nearing the end of May and they are still on the
> factory charge! AWSOME (Does that get the point across?) I'm not a heavy
> camera user. A couple hundred shots on each camera since installing the
> Hybrids. Because I shoot 200 shots over a stretch of 3 or 4 months, the
> Hybrids are a perfect match for me. If you have to charge your batteries
> every 2 or three weeks, the long shelf life batteries may not be ideal. In
> that case look for a higher amp hour Ni-Mh.
>
> I saw Target stores have 2AA and 2AAA Hybrids with charger for $10. Don't
> know if sale is still good.
>
> These batteries are new technology so the number of recharges and my
> question of if the long shelf life will still be effective as the battery
> ages is unknown.
> John
>
>

We've all been talking about Eneloop or Hybrid. I noticed one Walmart
had similar Kodak item. Radio Shack also have their version but was more
expensive.
Dave Cohen
 >> Stay informed about: Low self-discharge NiMH batteries? 

Marvin wrote:
> I bought some Rayovac 2500 mAH last year, and I'm very happy
> with them. I've recharged them with inexpensive Kodak and
> Energizer chargers.

Thanks. Those aren't the low self-discharge batteries I am referring too.
The low self-discharge batteries by Rayovac are called "Hybrid" and they are
2100 mAh capacity.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: D281 77A5 63EE 82C5 5E68 00E4 7868 0ADC 4EFB 39F0
 >> Stay informed about: Low self-discharge NiMH batteries? 

Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> Marvin wrote:
>> I bought some Rayovac 2500 mAH last year, and I'm very happy
>> with them. I've recharged them with inexpensive Kodak and
>> Energizer chargers.
>
> Thanks. Those aren't the low self-discharge batteries I am referring too.
> The low self-discharge batteries by Rayovac are called "Hybrid" and they are
> 2100 mAh capacity.
>
The ones I have discharge in storage much more slowly than
older NiMH batteries.
 >> Stay informed about: Low self-discharge NiMH batteries? 

ASAAR wrote:

<heavily edited, for brevity>

> The SB-600 manual states that the 220 flashes per charge are
> achieved when the batteries are used to near exhaustion, when the
> recycle time approaches 30 seconds. That's dangerous territory for
> rechargeables, which can be damaged if all four cells don't have
> very closely matched capacities, and one of them goes flat before
> the others. Not a problem for replaceable alkalines, but with NiMH
> batteries, I'd replace them with a fresh set when the recycle time
> started to exceed about 10 seconds or so.

<edited>

Hello, ASAAR:

I have a Kodak K6100-C+A 1-hour charger, which includes four AA Ni-MM
cells (2500 mAh). Nowhere (on the package, charger, batteries or
instruction sheet) does it mention that there's anything special about
these particular cells.

Hence, is it safe to put "regular" Ni-MM AA's (and/or AAA's) into the
K6100? If so, would it fully charge them, in an hour?

I eagerly await your answers, oh battery expert! <g>


Cordially,
John Turco
 >> Stay informed about: Low self-discharge NiMH batteries? 

On Tue, 29 May 2007 22:05:09 -0500, John Turco wrote:

> I have a Kodak K6100-C+A 1-hour charger, which includes four AA Ni-MM
> cells (2500 mAh). Nowhere (on the package, charger, batteries or
> instruction sheet) does it mention that there's anything special about
> these particular cells.
>
> Hence, is it safe to put "regular" Ni-MM AA's (and/or AAA's) into the
> K6100? If so, would it fully charge them, in an hour?
>
> I eagerly await your answers, oh battery expert! <g>

Ah, grasshopper appears too impatient. Might borrow grandfather's
slow charger and ponder yonder. Any 1-hour charger should be a
"smart" charger and safe to use as long as it's not so old that it
was only designed for NiCd batteries. You'll find though, that the
1 hour charging time is probably going to be different much of the
time. Usually the stated time is only for batteries of the same
capacity as the ones packaged with the charger, and as the batteries
age, the charging time will decrease with those batteries. For
example, I have a very nice RayOVac 1 hour charger, but when I
bought it several years ago it included 1,600mAh NiMH batteries. As
time went on and I bought 1,800, 2,000, 2,100 and higher capacity
batteries, the charging time increased for each of these. With my
recent batteries (2,650 and 2,700mAh), charge time for fully
depleted batteries in that charger is about 1hr 40 minutes.

Your Kodak charger will take less than 1 hour to charge any
battery that was less than 2,500mAh when new, or higher capacity
batteries that have lost enough capacity over time so that they now
have less than 2,500mAh capacity when fully charged. Put new
2,700mAh batteries in the Kodak charger, and it should take up to 65
minutes to charge them, depending on how much remaining charge they
had when charging started.

A couple of weeks ago I bought a fairly nice, inexpensive Duracell
charger targeted for sucke... uh, battery novices that don't know
any better. It didn't claim to be a speedy charger, saying that
charge time would be 4 hours. But I could see that the package
included 4 1,700mah NiMH AA cells. When was the last time you saw
such low capacity batteries being sold? Anyway, I bought it because
it had a USB charging port on the back, and I don't like plugging my
tiny Sony mp3 player into any of the computer's USB ports for
charging, because it then loads unneeded software. And if I want to
use a nice, slow (6 1/2 hr) charger for my regular NiMH batteries,
it's still a decent charger with 4 individual charging circuits, and
multiple LEDs for each cell showing their charge state.
 >> Stay informed about: Low self-discharge NiMH batteries?