Lens vs flash question

Gregory - thanks.. still digestng what you've said and adjusting my
pre-game settings accordingly.

CJ - thanks too. Unfortunately I wasn't too specific about the
situation. I'm manning other cameras and also not trying to be a
despised person by moving around during the performances. Yes I could
move closer but realistcally that's not an option many guests have or
would want to have happen.

Lighting is deceiving in gyms in our area.. nevermind the lack of air
conditioning here in the deep south. Having been fortunate to have
cousins and young relatives in different parts in the country, I feel
pretty comfortable saying poorly lit gyms for distant zoom shots is
not unusual. That and the high ceiling lights from directly above
don't help.... dang these infidel architects!

Wrong thing? well I would rephrase that as "typical". But then
again, many of my shots are a part of a year end video review. Or
incorporated into various scrapbooking projects (no, that's not what
*I* do <grin>). Or go into 3-d collages and such. The point here is,
in and of themselves the typical shots may be boring, but I treat them
as important raw components. Tires are boring but essential to the
function and even aesthetics of a car. The other point, if I may, is
that MANY parents/guadians/relatives/friends just about demand those
"boring" shots of them playing. More often than not, it's what's in
their living rooms 20 years later, not the unusual and dramatic scene
caught outside or what not (the scenes that we would prize). Yeah I
do find snapping the requisite individual, small group, and everyone
photos tedious and interfering with my creativity. But like anyting
else, it's not always about me. Unless I charge for it, lol (no I
don't. So far). Then again, I haven't come close to mastering
techniques of these typical shots, so I use them as training ground to
make all my photos laters look that much better. Before you get
discouraged with me, trust me I do my homework before, during, and
after events seeking those rare moments, even if I end up on the
ground on my back in front of the concession stand.

Thanks for the flash recommendation.. I'm taking that to heart.
 >> Stay informed about: Lens vs flash question 

In article <1173237961.854294.173940 RemoveThis @8g2000cwh.googlegroups.com>,
imaphotophan RemoveThis @yahoo.com wrote:

> It's decision time and I can really use the collective wisdom.
> Hopefully this can also help others in a similar situation. Have a
> Canon 400D with the 70-300 IS USM lens. Problem is when taking
> pictures of kids in a gym
> (awards ceremonies, concerts and things like that - NOT sports) from
> the bleachers (say 15 yds/13 m). Of course the gym lights appear
> like sufficient lighting and of course it's not. Pictures are a tad
> dark and subtle motion (like squirming or playing an instrument) is a
> blurred at 300. At 200 or less the details of the kids begin to get
> lost.
>
> Budget limits a choice for now... either a flash unit like a 430 EX or
> brighter lens (trading off some of the telephoto) like a Canon EF 85
> mm f/1.2 II. Any recommendations? Or are there other options? Or are
> these simply situations beyond the capabilities of this sort of camera
> setup and would require bigger bucks?
>
> If you have a rough set of guidelines of parameters (ISO, f-stop,
> lens, etc) that works for you in these conditions, please share.
>
>
> TIA

Thinking back to when I shot sports for the local newspaper,....the very
early days of my photo career, I used 400 speed film at like f/4 to f/8
f/8 is better if you have a fairly strong flash as moving objects and
such are hard to manually focus on So you can probably do with a slower
lens and a less powerful flash If you have AF (which is for cheaters .

Using say anywhere from a shutter speed of 1/60th to 250th ..I used a
Sunpack 522 which I sometimes still use for other stuff. It's a good
strong flash with nice manual variable settings down to 1/64th of an
f/stop. In any event:

With higher ISO settings you only want a bit of fill not direct shadow
producing flash. Most people doing sports photo's in a gym unless
sitting in East Bund don't need really long Focal lengths.....something
like a 70mm to 150 is probably good.

As for the flash, the 522 has a guide of 240 using a full blast at 400
ISO....so I know that would be adequate for most purpose at f/4 that's
60 feet of illumination less if you diffuse it though.
--
George W. Bush is the President Quayle we never had.
 >> Stay informed about: Lens vs flash question 

On 6 Mar 2007 19:26:01 -0800, imaphotophan.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com wrote:

>It's decision time and I can really use the collective wisdom.
>Hopefully this can also help others in a similar situation. Have a
>Canon 400D with the 70-300 IS USM lens. Problem is when taking
>pictures of kids in a gym
>(awards ceremonies, concerts and things like that - NOT sports) from
>the bleachers (say 15 yds/13 m). Of course the gym lights appear
>like sufficient lighting and of course it's not. Pictures are a tad
>dark and subtle motion (like squirming or playing an instrument) is a
>blurred at 300. At 200 or less the details of the kids begin to get
>lost.
>
>Budget limits a choice for now... either a flash unit like a 430 EX or
>brighter lens (trading off some of the telephoto) like a Canon EF 85
>mm f/1.2 II. Any recommendations? Or are there other options? Or are
>these simply situations beyond the capabilities of this sort of camera
>setup and would require bigger bucks?
>

I do quite a bit of photographing in gyms as my kids have gone through
performing arts extracurricular activities like Color Guard and
Drumline in the Winter. The lighting is extremely difficult from an
exposure (and sometimes white balance) standpoint.

I have a KM Maxxum 7D with a Tamron 28-75 f2.8. Other than the fact
that this combination hasn't provided 100% accurate focusing when
opened up to f2.8 and the subjects at the more extreme distances, I've
been able to get some great "available light" pictures at ISO 400
(though I sometimes use ISO800).

One trick is multiple shots in quick succession to (hopefully) get a
good shot. In my case, the subjects are moving, so some parts are
blurred while others are sharp. And I've gotten some great shots of
the kids in mid-air while jumping during part of their routine.
Shutter speeds tend to be around 1/40th-1/80th second.

I've found that with the 6MP available, if I'm "too far" away for
perfect details, there are enough pixels to allow me to crop
reasonably well and still come out with a nice picture as if I'd had a
larger telephoto.

As stated, the gym lighting can be fairly tricky. Sometimes the
pictures take quite a bit of additional processing in Photoshop due to
the strangeness in lighting. In taking lots of successive shots
(which actually looks pretty cool with all the movement) at times you
find somewhat darker spots in the lighting move across the scene. Not
really noticeable on a single shot, but when viewing the pictures in
succession in a "slide show", it becomes more evident.

This setting is definitely a challenge... but less so than an outside
Marching Band shoot with football field lighting at night.
 >> Stay informed about: Lens vs flash question 

Just a follow up.. used an 430EX today in the gym from about 2/3 up
the bleachers.. nearly devoid of blurs. Worked well. Extra weight
worth it but I can see it being a pain after while and certain makes
the camera harder to balance,
 >> Stay informed about: Lens vs flash question 

On 8 Mar 2007 18:33:55 -0800, imaphotophan.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com wrote:

> Just a follow up.. used an 430EX today in the gym from about 2/3 up
> the bleachers.. nearly devoid of blurs. Worked well. Extra weight
> worth it but I can see it being a pain after while and certain makes
> the camera harder to balance,

Put the 430EX on a handle. While the total weight will go up
slightly, I've found that it's not noticeable, it makes the camera
much easier to carry, and solves the awkward, top-heavy balance
problem. And when you get down on the gym floor with the kids, the
extra flash to lens distance will pretty much guarantee no redeye.
 >> Stay informed about: Lens vs flash question 

Thanks ASAAR - good advice. Ah.. more stuff to get. It never ends,
lol.
 >> Stay informed about: Lens vs flash question