Laser vs inkjet when for greyscale`

Hello John,
I enjoy this newsgroup and certainly want to follow the standards. I
am new to newsgroup, however. What are "top" and "bottom" posting?
>From this thread I understand it's preferable to "bottom post."
Bill in Lake Charles
 >> Stay informed about: Laser vs inkjet when for greyscale` 

Most inkjet printers are higher resolution than laser printers, and so
the range of grey steps in the scale would be finer.

Inkjets can produce photo-like results. Some higher dpi (black) laser
can produce reasonable greyscale (I'd suggest 800-1200 ppi), but the
inkjet result will be superior.

Art

harryguy082589 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I run a detal prtice and i am begining to digitize my x-ray system,
> somebody told me that i should buy an inkjet printer over a laser
> printer because inkjets have better quality greyscale images. Is this
> true?
>
 >> Stay informed about: Laser vs inkjet when for greyscale` 

J. Clarke wrote:
> harryguy082589 RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I run a detal prtice and i am begining to digitize my x-ray system,
>> somebody told me that i should buy an inkjet printer over a laser
>> printer because inkjets have better quality greyscale images. Is
>> this
>> true?
>
> Depends on the particular printers you are comparing, but generally
> yes. Google "grayscale ink" and you'll find a large number of hits
> with relevant information. There's a tutorial at
> <http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm>;
> <http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm> produces grayscale inks and
> their site has considerable discussion of their use. Some printers,
> for example the Epson R2400, 4800, 7800, 9800, HP 8750 and several
> other HP models, include or have available from the manufacturer
> grayscale inks. In addition the color inks are used in combination
> to fill out the tonality.

I'm still entranced by the prospect of hi-res and quality-paper-use
implicit in the specifications of the Konica-Minolta magicolor 2450:
http://printer.konicaminolta.com/products/color/mc2450/index.asp

If you don't need absolute photo-show quality, could this be a
solution?

I've yet to find a dealer with such a printer on display, and K-M have
ignored my supplications with regard to a sample photo-print.

--
Frank ess
 >> Stay informed about: Laser vs inkjet when for greyscale` 

On 6/22/06 9:39 AM, Bill K posted the following:
> Hello John,
> I enjoy this newsgroup and certainly want to follow the standards. I
> am new to newsgroup, however. What are "top" and "bottom" posting?
> From this thread I understand it's preferable to "bottom post."


Well, that's almost asking for strong opposing opinions, but yes, it's
traditional in many NG's. Trimming out extraneous material is also very
helpful, but of course, there's an opposing opinion on everything.

Even the sig line, which assists in replying by the fact that many news
readers honor it (by dropping everything below the two dashes, space and
return). Thunderbird greys out everything below it, a feature that's
o.k. but not to everyone's taste.

--
John McWilliams

I know that you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm
not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. [not 'you'
of course, those other guys.....]
 >> Stay informed about: Laser vs inkjet when for greyscale` 

Don Stauffer wrote:

> DPI makes a difference. Few decent priced laser printers have a high
> dpi. The higher the dpi of the printer, the greater the number of dots
> in each pseudo-pixel, and hence the higher the grey scale it can use.
>
> Both laser printers and inkjets use the same sort of diffusion dither to
> create 'mock' halftone cells. The more dots in each cell (a cell is the
> same as a pixel) the more grey tones available. Thus high dpi inkjets
> will have more tones than most lasers.

Double-shoot a dot with an inkjet and you have a darker dot, do it with a
laser and you just have a bigger bump on the paper. There are no lasers of
which I am aware that have three different shades of gray toner, but there
are inkjets so designed.

> Even some of the dye subs dither. While many dye subs can alter the
> amount of ink per dot,

Dye sublimation printers do not use ink, they use dye transferred as vapor,
and the whole _point_ of dye sublimition is that the quantity of dye
transfered is controllable. This does not vary the _size_, it varies the
_intensity_.

> on some dye sub printers the amount of variation
> is still not good enough for a large number of shades, so both variation
> of dot size AND dithering are used.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 >> Stay informed about: Laser vs inkjet when for greyscale` 

Pete D wrote:
>
> "Rules" are for the blind obedience of fools and the guidance of others.
> Whoever wrote the first guide that said bottom posting was a good idea is a
> dead set moron. I have now worn out twelve mice because bottom posters do
> not snip the rubbish.
>
Not snipping does not invalidate bottom posting. As for your mice, does
your keyboard not have a PageDown key?

Colin D.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 >> Stay informed about: Laser vs inkjet when for greyscale` 

In message <Hnxmg.2$2z1.640@news.uswest.net>, Don Stauffer
<stauffer.DeleteThis@usfamily.net> writes
>DPI makes a difference. Few decent priced laser printers have a high
>dpi. The higher the dpi of the printer, the greater the number of dots
>in each pseudo-pixel, and hence the higher the grey scale it can use.
>
>Both laser printers and inkjets use the same sort of diffusion dither
>to create 'mock' halftone cells. The more dots in each cell (a cell is
>the same as a pixel) the more grey tones available. Thus high dpi
>inkjets will have more tones than most lasers.
>
>Even some of the dye subs dither. While many dye subs can alter the
>amount of ink per dot, on some dye sub printers the amount of variation
>is still not good enough for a large number of shades, so both
>variation of dot size AND dithering are used.

But, there is also the matter of bit depth, if you buy a new half decent
laser it will be able to vary the intensity of each dot, usually either
a 4 bit depth or 8 bit. As far as I can tell on non-production machines
this is done by varying the dot size. I _believe_ but haven't been able
to confirm it, that production machines vary the intensity by some
method involving the amount of developing that takes place as they tend
to be two stage prints using developer and toner.

For instance my new machine here a Minolta Bizhub says 256 shades per
pixel and 600 dpi - consequently it prints a very nice monochrome (and a
very nice colour). But the old machine a Canon CLC also said 256 shades
per pixel and only 400 dpi and it did produce a nicer copy - which it
should do as its equivalent model today is about 4 times the price of
the bizhub.

If you get a decent resolution an old black laser can produce a good
copy. I remember printing some pictures on an HP IIIP, the dot pattern
was noticeable if I tried to enlarge during printing, but as long as I
printed at the printer's 300dpi resolution it was fine, - so an
1800x1200 picture would get printed 6" x 4"


--
Timothy
 >> Stay informed about: Laser vs inkjet when for greyscale` 

Frank ess wrote:

> J. Clarke wrote:
>> harryguy082589 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I run a detal prtice and i am begining to digitize my x-ray system,
>>> somebody told me that i should buy an inkjet printer over a laser
>>> printer because inkjets have better quality greyscale images. Is
>>> this
>>> true?
>>
>> Depends on the particular printers you are comparing, but generally
>> yes. Google "grayscale ink" and you'll find a large number of hits
>> with relevant information. There's a tutorial at
>> <http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm>;
>> <http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm> produces grayscale inks and
>> their site has considerable discussion of their use. Some printers,
>> for example the Epson R2400, 4800, 7800, 9800, HP 8750 and several
>> other HP models, include or have available from the manufacturer
>> grayscale inks. In addition the color inks are used in combination
>> to fill out the tonality.
>
> I'm still entranced by the prospect of hi-res and quality-paper-use
> implicit in the specifications of the Konica-Minolta magicolor 2450:
> http://printer.konicaminolta.com/products/color/mc2450/index.asp
>
> If you don't need absolute photo-show quality, could this be a
> solution?
>
> I've yet to find a dealer with such a printer on display, and K-M have
> ignored my supplications with regard to a sample photo-print.

It's a 500 buck laser printer. Why would you expect it to work any
differently from any other 500 buck laser printer?


--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 >> Stay informed about: Laser vs inkjet when for greyscale` 

J. Clarke wrote:
> Frank ess wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>> harryguy082589 DeleteThis @gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I run a detal prtice and i am begining to digitize my x-ray
>>>> system,
>>>> somebody told me that i should buy an inkjet printer over a laser
>>>> printer because inkjets have better quality greyscale images. Is
>>>> this
>>>> true?
>>>
>>> Depends on the particular printers you are comparing, but
>>> generally
>>> yes. Google "grayscale ink" and you'll find a large number of hits
>>> with relevant information. There's a tutorial at
>>> <http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm>;
>>> <http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm> produces grayscale inks and
>>> their site has considerable discussion of their use. Some
>>> printers,
>>> for example the Epson R2400, 4800, 7800, 9800, HP 8750 and several
>>> other HP models, include or have available from the manufacturer
>>> grayscale inks. In addition the color inks are used in
>>> combination
>>> to fill out the tonality.
>>
>> I'm still entranced by the prospect of hi-res and quality-paper-use
>> implicit in the specifications of the Konica-Minolta magicolor
>> 2450:
>> http://printer.konicaminolta.com/products/color/mc2450/index.asp
>>
>> If you don't need absolute photo-show quality, could this be a
>> solution?
>>
>> I've yet to find a dealer with such a printer on display, and K-M
>> have ignored my supplications with regard to a sample photo-print.
>
> It's a 500 buck laser printer. Why would you expect it to work any
> differently from any other 500 buck laser printer?

Maybe I'm not speaking loud enough. Something I said included
"expect"?

I don't know much about laser printers, but never before did I see one
that claimed anything near "Up to 9600 x 600 dpi-class with Photo
ART". I'd like to see a print on glossy paper, so I _would_ know what
to expect, and how it matches up to my needs.

Joining in the spirit of your response, is it an ego-defense habit or
a scurrilous ploy that drives you to beg questions? Smiley face.

--
Frank ess
"There are some people it is our duty to annoy."
-- Lord Reith
 >> Stay informed about: Laser vs inkjet when for greyscale` 

On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:57:44 -0700, Frank ess wrote:

> Joining in the spirit of your response, is it an ego-defense habit or
> a scurrilous ploy that drives you to beg questions? Smiley face.
>
> --
> Frank ess
> "There are some people it is our duty to annoy."
> -- Lord Reith

And there are those whose mission entails being annoying, probably
for the pure pleasure it provides.
 >> Stay informed about: Laser vs inkjet when for greyscale` 

"Bill K" <msuwkrull.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1150994340.771524.115100@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Hello John,
> I enjoy this newsgroup and certainly want to follow the standards. I
> am new to newsgroup, however. What are "top" and "bottom" posting?
>>From this thread I understand it's preferable to "bottom post."
> Bill in Lake Charles

You just top posted.
Bottom posting follows the normal conversation. We read from top to bottom
so if everyone follows, you can follow a thread much easier. Just as
important is to delete most of the previous post. Just leave a couple of
sentences so everyone know who you are replying to and about what.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/
 >> Stay informed about: Laser vs inkjet when for greyscale` 

J. Clarke wrote:

>
> Dye sublimation printers do not use ink, they use dye transferred as vapor,
> and the whole _point_ of dye sublimition is that the quantity of dye
> transfered is controllable. This does not vary the _size_, it varies the
> _intensity_.
>
>
>>on some dye sub printers the amount of variation
>>is still not good enough for a large number of shades, so both variation
>>of dot size AND dithering are used.
>
>

Even so, the amount of ink put down has a variance. That variance
limits the number of shades of intensity, which is why some dye subs,
such as some of the Tektronix ones, still dither some. Just like
inkjets (many do not have shades of grey ink), not all dye subs are the
same.
 >> Stay informed about: Laser vs inkjet when for greyscale` 

In message <e7egiu183f.RemoveThis@news2.newsguy.com>, J. Clarke
<jclarke.usenet.RemoveThis@snet.net.invalid> writes
>
>Double-shoot a dot with an inkjet and you have a darker dot, do it with a
>laser and you just have a bigger bump on the paper. There are no lasers of
>which I am aware that have three different shades of gray toner, but there
>are inkjets so designed.

See my post re 4 or 8 bit pixel depth in lasers.

--
Timothy
 >> Stay informed about: Laser vs inkjet when for greyscale`