Interim camera: 30D or 400D

On 5 Sep 2006 09:56:59 -0700, mybokeh.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:

>Hello--
>
>I am currently using a Canon 350D. Within the next year to 18 months, I
>plan on upgrading to a full-frame sensor, perhaps the 5D replacement
>(if there is one--I am waiting to see what Canon announces at
>Photokina).

Might I make a suggestion?
Buy your neice the 400D, and buy your full-frame camera when you can.
You're going to buy two new cameras anyway. Give the neice a new
camera now, and keep the 350D; you'll have a camera you already know,
your niece will have a new camera, and you'll still get the FF camera
later.
Problem solved.
Unless, of course, you just want a new camera now, and later.
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"
 >> Stay informed about: Interim camera: 30D or 400D 

Bill Funk wrote:
> On 5 Sep 2006 09:56:59 -0700, mybokeh.TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
> Might I make a suggestion?
> Buy your neice the 400D, and buy your full-frame camera when you can.
> You're going to buy two new cameras anyway. Give the neice a new
> camera now, and keep the 350D; you'll have a camera you already know,
> your niece will have a new camera, and you'll still get the FF camera
> later.
> Problem solved.
> Unless, of course, you just want a new camera now, and later.
> --
> Bill Funk
> replace "g" with "a"

Hello Bill--

I thought about that, but her parents (my sister and her husband),
woldn't feel right about me giving her such an extravagant present. A
used camera, they're fine with, but a new, $800 one...now that's a
different story.

And, well, I get to have a new camera, too <wink>.

Thanks for your reply.

--John
 >> Stay informed about: Interim camera: 30D or 400D 

mybokeh.TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
> Hello--
>
> I am currently using a Canon 350D. Within the next year to 18 months, I
> plan on upgrading to a full-frame sensor, perhaps the 5D replacement
> (if there is one--I am waiting to see what Canon announces at
> Photokina).
>
> However, I am going to give my current camera to my niece who is very
> interested in developing her photography skills. This leaves me with a
> choice. As I am not ready to purchase the full frame camera right now,
> I will need an interim body. I have been looking at both the 30D and
> the new 400D. I know that there isn't much "field test" information
> on the 400D yet, but I was wondering what people thought of their 30D.
> The increase in megapixels is a tiny factor, but I also understand that
> it isn't such a huge difference to make it a deal breaker. Does the
> build quality, photo quality justify the few hundred dollars more one
> would pay for the 30D? Can the technology of the "intro level" 400D be
> so far behind the 30D?
>
> My work includes street photography and some landscapes (but more along
> the lines of "urban landscapes"). I do little to no portraiture (unless
> it is environmental portraits), and do not do much sports photography
> (although I do try to capture some action: dogs, traffic, bicycles,
> etc.). I mostly shoot with my (prized) 16-35 f/2.8, my 24-70 f2.8, and,
> less frequently, my 70-200 f/4. When the situation calls for it, I like
> to go to my 50mm F/1.4.
>
> On the one hand, I think I can still use my 350's batteries and battery
> grip on the new 400. That may be another "hidden" savings. On the
> other, if the 30D is going to be a better tool for the short run--and a
> better transition to the higher end models--I'd be willing to spend the
> money.
>
> Any comments you may have would be greatly appreciated.


I think the difference between the 30D and 400D would seem marginal to
someone who doesn't need the 5 fps burst or the sturdier body. I don't
imagine you'll be breaking the 400D anytime in the next 18 months.

The price of the 30D is around 40-50% more than that of the 400D. And
if you end up buying new batteries and the battery grip for the 30D,
it'll set you back even more. Wouldn't you be better off saving that
money, or using it to upgrade your lens?
 >> Stay informed about: Interim camera: 30D or 400D 

On 5 Sep 2006 14:09:32 -0700, "My Bokeh" <mybokeh.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Bill Funk wrote:
>> On 5 Sep 2006 09:56:59 -0700, mybokeh.TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
>> Might I make a suggestion?
>> Buy your neice the 400D, and buy your full-frame camera when you can.
>> You're going to buy two new cameras anyway. Give the neice a new
>> camera now, and keep the 350D; you'll have a camera you already know,
>> your niece will have a new camera, and you'll still get the FF camera
>> later.
>> Problem solved.
>> Unless, of course, you just want a new camera now, and later.
>> --
>> Bill Funk
>> replace "g" with "a"
>
>Hello Bill--
>
>I thought about that, but her parents (my sister and her husband),
>woldn't feel right about me giving her such an extravagant present. A
>used camera, they're fine with, but a new, $800 one...now that's a
>different story.

Well, tell your niece *someone* was trying to get her a new camera!

>
>And, well, I get to have a new camera, too <wink>.
>
>Thanks for your reply.
>
>--John
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"
 >> Stay informed about: Interim camera: 30D or 400D 

<mybokeh.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello--
>
> I am currently using a Canon 350D. Within the next year to 18 months, I
> plan on upgrading to a full-frame sensor, perhaps the 5D replacement
> (if there is one--I am waiting to see what Canon announces at
> Photokina).
>
> However, I am going to give my current camera to my niece who is very
> interested in developing her photography skills. This leaves me with a
> choice. As I am not ready to purchase the full frame camera right now,

Bite the bullet and buy the 5D. Now. Today.

The day you get the 5D, you will be desperately pissed at yourself for not
having bought it earlier.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 >> Stay informed about: Interim camera: 30D or 400D 

plastic_razor.RemoveThis@yahoo.com wrote:

>mybokeh@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hello--
>>
>> I am currently using a Canon 350D. Within the next year to 18 months, I
>> plan on upgrading to a full-frame sensor, perhaps the 5D replacement
>> (if there is one--I am waiting to see what Canon announces at
>> Photokina).
>>
>> However, I am going to give my current camera to my niece who is very
>> interested in developing her photography skills. This leaves me with a
>> choice. As I am not ready to purchase the full frame camera right now,
>> I will need an interim body. I have been looking at both the 30D and
>> the new 400D. I know that there isn't much "field test" information
>> on the 400D yet, but I was wondering what people thought of their 30D.
>> The increase in megapixels is a tiny factor, but I also understand that
>> it isn't such a huge difference to make it a deal breaker. Does the
>> build quality, photo quality justify the few hundred dollars more one
>> would pay for the 30D? Can the technology of the "intro level" 400D be
>> so far behind the 30D?
>>
>> My work includes street photography and some landscapes (but more along
>> the lines of "urban landscapes"). I do little to no portraiture (unless
>> it is environmental portraits), and do not do much sports photography
>> (although I do try to capture some action: dogs, traffic, bicycles,
>> etc.). I mostly shoot with my (prized) 16-35 f/2.8, my 24-70 f2.8, and,
>> less frequently, my 70-200 f/4. When the situation calls for it, I like
>> to go to my 50mm F/1.4.
>>
>> On the one hand, I think I can still use my 350's batteries and battery
>> grip on the new 400. That may be another "hidden" savings. On the
>> other, if the 30D is going to be a better tool for the short run--and a
>> better transition to the higher end models--I'd be willing to spend the
>> money.
>>
>> Any comments you may have would be greatly appreciated.


>I think the difference between the 30D and 400D would seem marginal to
>someone who doesn't need the 5 fps burst or the sturdier body. I don't
>imagine you'll be breaking the 400D anytime in the next 18 months.

>The price of the 30D is around 40-50% more than that of the 400D. And
>if you end up buying new batteries and the battery grip for the 30D,
>it'll set you back even more. Wouldn't you be better off saving that
>money, or using it to upgrade your lens?

Or, as David suggested, just buy the 5D now. Consider that
you've put the $800 a 400D will cost you toward reducing the
cost of the 5D.

---- Paul J. Gans
 >> Stay informed about: Interim camera: 30D or 400D 

On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 01:55:57 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans wrote:

>>money, or using it to upgrade your lens?
>
> Or, as David suggested, just buy the 5D now. Consider that
> you've put the $800 a 400D will cost you toward reducing the
> cost of the 5D.

Or, get the 400D now, and in a couple of years when it's time to
get one, an improved 5D² might cost $800 less than a 5D does today.
 >> Stay informed about: Interim camera: 30D or 400D 

John Ortt wrote:
> "David J. Littleboy" <davidjl.TakeThisOut@gol.com> wrote in message
> news:edkr0h$26n$1@nnrp.gol.com...
> >
> > <mybokeh.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hello--
>
> > Bite the bullet and buy the 5D. Now. Today.
> >
> > The day you get the 5D, you will be desperately pissed at yourself for not
> > having bought it earlier.
> >
> > David J. Littleboy
> > Tokyo, Japan
>
> The guy's got a point.....
>
> If you have the money now go for it.
>
> Don't forget any pics you take in the interim will not benefit from the full
> frame....
>
> and wouldn't it be a tradgedy if your best pic was missed due to waiting for
> the cameras to develop further.


*Sigh.* I was afraid someone would say that (let alone two of you),
giving credibility to that nagging little voice in the depths of my
desire. I see the logic. I really do.

I was willing to wait to see what new technology came out for a few
reasons. First, simple curiosity and--yes I'll admit it--camera lust.
But also, I hoped that once a "new 5D" came out or was announced, the
current model would drop in price.

I also have to accept that if we keep waiting "just to see what's going
to happen," we eventually find out that all we've done is wait and
wait.

I think about my needs and wants. Do I NEED a 5D? A year ago, I
wouldn't have thought so. But as my photograhy skills grow and
develope, I am begining to see a need. I am at a point where I feel I
can begin to make money from my skill. As much of a justification as it
may sound, I don't think the 350D is "enough camera" for me any longer.
Not that it isn't a fine tool--It's taken me farther than I ever
thought possible and my neice (or anyone else interested in exploring
photography) will benefit greatly from it. But I also know I have more
to explore. That is why I was thinking in terms of the 30D...as a
"stepping stone" to the 5D. Financially, however, the logic makes sense
that I might as well spend the money now, or else I'll spend $800 -
$1200 for a new camera now AND $3000 for a new one in a few years. And
having purchased the 30D or 400D now, I may be less inclined to be able
to justify the 5D so soon.

And besides, I NEED a 5D to really exploit my beloved lenses, don't I?

Geeze, I can't believe a simple usenet post just caused me to think
about spending more than twice as much as I was going to spend
yesterday!
 >> Stay informed about: Interim camera: 30D or 400D 

"David J. Littleboy" <davidjl DeleteThis @gol.com> wrote in message
news:edkr0h$26n$1@nnrp.gol.com...
>
> <mybokeh DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello--

> Bite the bullet and buy the 5D. Now. Today.
>
> The day you get the 5D, you will be desperately pissed at yourself for not
> having bought it earlier.
>
> David J. Littleboy
> Tokyo, Japan

The guy's got a point.....

If you have the money now go for it.

Don't forget any pics you take in the interim will not benefit from the full
frame....

and wouldn't it be a tradgedy if your best pic was missed due to waiting for
the cameras to develop further.
 >> Stay informed about: Interim camera: 30D or 400D 

My Bokeh wrote:
> John Ortt wrote:
>> "David J. Littleboy" <davidjl DeleteThis @gol.com> wrote in message
>> news:edkr0h$26n$1@nnrp.gol.com...
>>>
>>> <mybokeh DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello--
>>
>>> Bite the bullet and buy the 5D. Now. Today.
>>>
>>> The day you get the 5D, you will be desperately pissed at yourself
>>> for not having bought it earlier.
>>>
>>> David J. Littleboy
>>> Tokyo, Japan
>>
>> The guy's got a point.....
>>
>> If you have the money now go for it.
>>
>> Don't forget any pics you take in the interim will not benefit from
>> the full frame....
>>
>> and wouldn't it be a tradgedy if your best pic was missed due to
>> waiting for the cameras to develop further.
>
>
> *Sigh.* I was afraid someone would say that (let alone two of you),
> giving credibility to that nagging little voice in the depths of my
> desire. I see the logic. I really do.
>
> I was willing to wait to see what new technology came out for a few
> reasons. First, simple curiosity and--yes I'll admit it--camera
> lust.
> But also, I hoped that once a "new 5D" came out or was announced,
> the
> current model would drop in price.
>
> I also have to accept that if we keep waiting "just to see what's
> going to happen," we eventually find out that all we've done is wait
> and wait.
>
> I think about my needs and wants. Do I NEED a 5D? A year ago, I
> wouldn't have thought so. But as my photograhy skills grow and
> develope, I am begining to see a need. I am at a point where I feel
> I
> can begin to make money from my skill. As much of a justification as
> it may sound, I don't think the 350D is "enough camera" for me any
> longer. Not that it isn't a fine tool--It's taken me farther than I
> ever thought possible and my neice (or anyone else interested in
> exploring photography) will benefit greatly from it. But I also know
> I have more to explore. That is why I was thinking in terms of the
> 30D...as a "stepping stone" to the 5D. Financially, however, the
> logic makes sense that I might as well spend the money now, or else
> I'll spend $800 - $1200 for a new camera now AND $3000 for a new one
> in a few years. And having purchased the 30D or 400D now, I may be
> less inclined to be able to justify the 5D so soon.
>
> And besides, I NEED a 5D to really exploit my beloved lenses, don't
> I?
>
> Geeze, I can't believe a simple usenet post just caused me to think
> about spending more than twice as much as I was going to spend
> yesterday!

Yup, that all makes sense.

Now google up a 1DS MkII and agonize even more ...

--
Frank ess
 >> Stay informed about: Interim camera: 30D or 400D 

"ASAAR" <caught.TakeThisOut@22.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 01:55:57 +0000 (UTC), Paul J Gans wrote:
>>>money, or using it to upgrade your lens?
>>
>> Or, as David suggested, just buy the 5D now. Consider that
>> you've put the $800 a 400D will cost you toward reducing the
>> cost of the 5D.
>
> Or, get the 400D now, and in a couple of years when it's time to
> get one, an improved 5D² might cost $800 less than a 5D does today.

You are right on the price, I suspect (and Canon has stated that at some
point, only the low end will remain APS-C; the 30D level will be FF within a
few years). But my bet is that the improvements** in the next 5D will be
minor; 16MP (which isn't enough above 12.7MP to see the difference on a
13x19 print), faster burst rate, weathersealing.

The 5D is already about a stop better than the 20D/350D/30D in noise* and
the 400D is expected to be worse, so your approach involves putting up with
about two years of significantly worse images.

*: http://www.ddisoftware.com/20d-5d/#nsprof

**: I'm not expecting a new 5D for a long time. The things that people
complain about (burst rate, weathersealing, 45-point AF), are mostly
1-series (pro) features that I doubt will make it to the midrange. The 5D AF
is the best AF Canon offers outside the 1-series, it's fine in a light
drizzle, 3 fps is pretty darn fast.

The only downside to the 5D is that with a tripod L bracket and a heavy L
lens, it's getting rather heavy. (So I leave off the bracket and use the
lighter Tamron 28-75/2.8.)

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 >> Stay informed about: Interim camera: 30D or 400D 

Frank ess wrote:
> My Bokeh wrote:
> > John Ortt wrote:
> >> "David J. Littleboy" <davidjl.TakeThisOut@gol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:edkr0h$26n$1@nnrp.gol.com...
> >>>
> >>> <mybokeh.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Hello--
> >>
> >>> Bite the bullet and buy the 5D. Now. Today.
> >>>
> >>> The day you get the 5D, you will be desperately pissed at yourself
> >>> for not having bought it earlier.
> >>>
> >>> David J. Littleboy
> >>> Tokyo, Japan
> >>
> >> The guy's got a point.....
> >>
> >> If you have the money now go for it.
> >>
> >> Don't forget any pics you take in the interim will not benefit from
> >> the full frame....
> >>
> >> and wouldn't it be a tradgedy if your best pic was missed due to
> >> waiting for the cameras to develop further.
> >
> >
> > *Sigh.* I was afraid someone would say that (let alone two of you),
> > giving credibility to that nagging little voice in the depths of my
> > desire. I see the logic. I really do.
> >
> > I was willing to wait to see what new technology came out for a few
> > reasons. First, simple curiosity and--yes I'll admit it--camera
> > lust.
> > But also, I hoped that once a "new 5D" came out or was announced,
> > the
> > current model would drop in price.
> >
> > I also have to accept that if we keep waiting "just to see what's
> > going to happen," we eventually find out that all we've done is wait
> > and wait.
> >
> > I think about my needs and wants. Do I NEED a 5D? A year ago, I
> > wouldn't have thought so. But as my photograhy skills grow and
> > develope, I am begining to see a need. I am at a point where I feel
> > I
> > can begin to make money from my skill. As much of a justification as
> > it may sound, I don't think the 350D is "enough camera" for me any
> > longer. Not that it isn't a fine tool--It's taken me farther than I
> > ever thought possible and my neice (or anyone else interested in
> > exploring photography) will benefit greatly from it. But I also know
> > I have more to explore. That is why I was thinking in terms of the
> > 30D...as a "stepping stone" to the 5D. Financially, however, the
> > logic makes sense that I might as well spend the money now, or else
> > I'll spend $800 - $1200 for a new camera now AND $3000 for a new one
> > in a few years. And having purchased the 30D or 400D now, I may be
> > less inclined to be able to justify the 5D so soon.
> >
> > And besides, I NEED a 5D to really exploit my beloved lenses, don't
> > I?
> >
> > Geeze, I can't believe a simple usenet post just caused me to think
> > about spending more than twice as much as I was going to spend
> > yesterday!
>
> Yup, that all makes sense.
>
> Now google up a 1DS MkII and agonize even more ...
>
> --
> Frank ess

Frank, you'll be the death of me!
 >> Stay informed about: Interim camera: 30D or 400D 

"Frank ess" <frank RemoveThis @fshe2fs.com> wrote:
>
> Yup, that all makes sense.
>
> Now google up a 1DS MkII and agonize even more ...

There wasn't any agony here: for the same price, I'd take the 5D over the
1Dsmk2. The 1Dsmk2 is way too heavy. (I was irritated at first that Canon
shortchanged us on the pixel count, but it turns out that to actually see a
difference in a print, you need something like a 20 or 25% increase in
linear resolution. The extra 12% you get going from 12.7 to 16MP just isn't
enough to see.)

Which is why I'm betting* that the next version of the 5D will be 16MP: with
the low and midrange at 10MP, 12MP isn't looking like that much of an
upgrade, whereas I'm pretty sure you'd see the difference between 10MP and
16MP at 13x19.

*: Not that I ever win bets, of course.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 >> Stay informed about: Interim camera: 30D or 400D