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Next: Nikon D60 vs D80
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External
Since: Aug 01, 2005
Posts: 199
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:03 pm
Post subject: ALL Image File are born in RAW
Archived from groups: rec>photo>digital (more info?)
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When I think about it, I conclude that ALL digital images, even those
from the most rudimentary, entry level digicam, must start out life as a
raw file. I mean.....What else could it be? A bunch of 0s and 1s
right from the sensor.
To make the raw data useful to the average photographer, the camera had
to do some serious processing to store and output the data as a jpeg or
tiff file. As demand for better access to the unprocessed data increased
camera manufacturers ALLOWED the user to download this minimally
processed data as RAW.
I suspect that in the "early days" it was just a matter of jpeg being
"good enough" and it saved valuable and scarce memory space which was at
a real premium in those days. I remember that in 2000, a 512 MB Micro
drive cost about $250.
Bob Williams |
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External
Since: Nov 04, 2007
Posts: 914
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:34 pm
Post subject: Re: ALL Image File are born in RAW [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Bob Williams wrote:
>When I think about it, I conclude that ALL digital images, even those
>from the most rudimentary, entry level digicam, must start out life as a
>raw file. I mean.....What else could it be? A bunch of 0s and 1s
>right from the sensor.
You have the right idea. But, it is "raw data", not a
raw file. It may or may not ever be put into a file...
>To make the raw data useful to the average photographer, the camera had
>to do some serious processing to store and output the data as a jpeg or
>tiff file. As demand for better access to the unprocessed data increased
>camera manufacturers ALLOWED the user to download this minimally
>processed data as RAW.
The other way around. Initially the cpu in the camera
didn't have enough power to do fancy conversions, so the
raw data was all that was available from the camera.
Then when more compute power became available it was
used to generate "finished" images (and for some
consumer cameras the raw data was no longer made
available).
>I suspect that in the "early days" it was just a matter of jpeg being
>"good enough" and it saved valuable and scarce memory space which was at
>a real premium in those days. I remember that in 2000, a 512 MB Micro
>drive cost about $250.
It certainly made one think about how many to buy!
But, the Nikon D1 price was $5000, and the RAW files
were much smaller than of raw files from a Nikon D3
today.
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd DeleteThis @apaflo.com |
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External
Since: Dec 18, 2007
Posts: 136
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:37 pm
Post subject: Re: ALL Image File are born in RAW [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Bob Williams wrote:
>When I think about it, I conclude that ALL digital images, even those
>from the most rudimentary, entry level digicam, must start out life as a
>raw file.
Well, that depends on your definition of file. It is a sequence of raw
data. On UNIXoid operating systems pretty much any data is considered a
file, even a keyboard or a USB interface or computer performance
statistics. In that sense yes, it is a file.
If you are using a more conservative meaning of file like data that is
stored in a file system on a storage device, then no, it is not a file,
because the data will be converted into e.g. a JPEG on the fly before
being written to the storage media.
jue >> Stay informed about: ALL Image File are born in RAW |
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External
Since: Jan 09, 2009
Posts: 6
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:25 am
Post subject: Re: ALL Image File are born in RAW [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Bob Williams wrote:
> When I think about it, I conclude that ALL digital images, even those
> from the most rudimentary, entry level digicam, must start out life
> as a raw file. I mean.....What else could it be? A bunch of 0s and
> 1s right from the sensor.
... perhaps it is actually a flow of photo-electrons, captured in a
somewhat noisy way by the read amplifier?
David >> Stay informed about: ALL Image File are born in RAW |
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External
Since: Aug 01, 2005
Posts: 199
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:25 am
Post subject: Re: ALL Image File are born in RAW [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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David J Taylor wrote:
> Bob Williams wrote:
>> When I think about it, I conclude that ALL digital images, even those
>> from the most rudimentary, entry level digicam, must start out life
>> as a raw file. I mean.....What else could it be? A bunch of 0s and
>> 1s right from the sensor.
>
> .. perhaps it is actually a flow of photo-electrons, captured in a
> somewhat noisy way by the read amplifier?
>
> David
Yes! That's right.
Bob >> Stay informed about: ALL Image File are born in RAW |
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External
Since: Feb 12, 2009
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:36 am
Post subject: Re: ALL Image File are born in RAW [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Feb 11, 4:03 pm, Bob Williams wrote:
> When I think about it, I conclude that ALL digital images, even those
> from the most rudimentary, entry level digicam, must start out life as a
> raw file. I mean.....What else could it be? A bunch of 0s and 1s
> right from the sensor.
> To make the raw data useful to the average photographer, the camera had
> to do some serious processing to store and output the data as a jpeg or
> tiff file. As demand for better access to the unprocessed data increased
> camera manufacturers ALLOWED the user to download this minimally
> processed data as RAW.
> I suspect that in the "early days" it was just a matter of jpeg being
> "good enough" and it saved valuable and scarce memory space which was at
> a real premium in those days. I remember that in 2000, a 512 MB Micro
> drive cost about $250.
> Bob Williams
The earliest viable DSLRs were the Kodak DCS series (100, 200, 420,
460, C1), they were up to 6mp (460, C1) and Kodak had a RAW processing
program, Photo Desk. The other alternative was to process to TIF in
camera which took a while, but designers like TIF files. They saved to
250mb PCMCI cards which cost a couple of grand apiece. The cameras
were above $20K each, but a lot of catalog photographers used them.
Tom >> Stay informed about: ALL Image File are born in RAW |
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External
Since: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 198
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:00 am
Post subject: Re: ALL Image File are born in RAW [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Bob Williams wrote:
> When I think about it, I conclude that ALL digital images, even those
> from the most rudimentary, entry level digicam, must start out life as a
> raw file. I mean.....What else could it be? A bunch of 0s and 1s
> right from the sensor.
> To make the raw data useful to the average photographer, the camera had
> to do some serious processing to store and output the data as a jpeg or
> tiff file. As demand for better access to the unprocessed data increased
> camera manufacturers ALLOWED the user to download this minimally
> processed data as RAW.
> I suspect that in the "early days" it was just a matter of jpeg being
> "good enough" and it saved valuable and scarce memory space which was at
> a real premium in those days. I remember that in 2000, a 512 MB Micro
> drive cost about $250.
> Bob Williams
>
>
>
>
>
I disagree. This would be true only if RAW files had no processing
whatsoever, were just a matrix of original electron data in an array.
But most camera RAW files DO have some sort of processing. Many have
already done the color allocation, some have some compression. What is
done to the data depends on the camera and the model. If this were not
so, you would not need the RAW conversion software, you could dump it to
the screen with a very simple universal program. >> Stay informed about: ALL Image File are born in RAW |
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