best small digital for indoor photos

We just bought a Canon S80 (Costco ~$450), a camera with very nice indoor
quality, plus amazing quality for outdoor photos. It is a NICE camera. It
looks like a point-n-shoot, but Steve's Digicams (a review web site) lists
it with their "semi-pro" cameras.

Warning: I recommend that you buy the camera at Costco with their infinite
return policy, because apparently Canon point and shoot cameras are prone to
"E18 errors". We haven't experienced the E18 error yet, and we otherwise
just LOVE this camera.

Here are the first couple paragraphs of the Steve's digicam review, along
with a link to the rest:

Canon's new flagship PowerShot S80 has 8.0 megapixels of resolution and a
28mm wide angle lens in a sleek and durable package that and features a
large 2.5-inch LCD screen for easy viewing, a high-quality XGA movie mode,
high-speed USB 2.0 support for quick transfer and a new easy-to-use
interface.
Picking up many popular features of its predecessor, the PowerShot S70, the
PowerShot S80 retains Canon's powerful, high quality, wide angle UA (Ultra
High Refractive Index Glass Aspherical) lens with a 3.6x wide-angle optical
zoom (35mm film equivalent: 28-100mm). The camera allows users to capture a
wider image area than most other compact digital cameras on the market, and
with Canon's DIGIC II image processor plus 8.0 megapixels of resolution, the
camera keeps image quality at its utmost.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/s80.html




No affil. with any of the sources I mentioned above -- but a VERY LOYAL
COSTCO CUSTOMER!
 >> Stay informed about: best small digital for indoor photos 

Susan wrote:
> just wondering about the best small (non SLR) digital for indoor
> photos. I have a couple of tiny pentaxes which are good outdoors but
> are terrible indoors. i cannot be bothered with a big camera with
> lots of paraphernalia and extra flashes etc and would like a small
> (does not have to be tiny tho) digital for indoor photos. am thinking
> of canon A620--what do you all think? thanks
> Susan
> banjolady.susan.DeleteThis@verizon.net
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/harrimanhike/

If, by indoors you imply wide-angle, then you might want to look at the
Nikon Coolpix 8400.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp8400/

David
 >> Stay informed about: best small digital for indoor photos 

Justus Lipsius <justuslipsius RemoveThis @wanadoonot.nl> writes:

> Susan bedacht in news:cKg7g.1477$NB6.174@trndny03:
>
> > just wondering about the best small (non SLR) digital for indoor
> > photos. I have a couple of tiny pentaxes which are good outdoors but
> > are terrible indoors. i cannot be bothered with a big camera with lots
> > of paraphernalia and extra flashes etc and would like a small (does
> > not have to be tiny tho) digital for indoor photos. am thinking of
> > canon A620--what do you all think? thanks

> The best choice looks to be the Fuji F10, F11 or (coming out this month)
> F30. All with ISO 3200 and relatively large sensor size.

Well, the F10 and F11 go to 1600. Okay, the F11 does (I've actually
got one); and I read that the F10 does as well. But I have also read
that the F30 goes to 3200, as you apparently have.

There are significant compromises in the user interface, including no
manual mode (if anybody finds out how to use the so-called "manual
mode" in the F11 to actually set the exposure, please tell me!) and no
histogram display. But it takes better ISO 1600 pictures than most
P&S take ISO 400 pictures.

I'd take the Canon A610 over the A620 -- the extra pixels are
irrelevant to snapshot print sizes, and the bigger pixels (those two
have the same size sensor, subdivided into different numbers of
pixels) will give lower noise levels. Both of these have better user
inferface than the F11 (I spent a month with an A610 recently), and
have useful features like a tilt/swivel LCD. Also a longer zoom
range. Significantly bigger, though.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
 >> Stay informed about: best small digital for indoor photos 

On 07 May 2006 10:16:39 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

> There are significant compromises in the user interface, including no
> manual mode (if anybody finds out how to use the so-called "manual
> mode" in the F11 to actually set the exposure, please tell me!) and no
> histogram display. But it takes better ISO 1600 pictures than most
> P&S take ISO 400 pictures.

Manual modes in all-Auto cameras usually allow you to set a slight
amount of exposure compensation. If that makes the 'Manual Mode'
worthy of the name, adding an ND filter could allow manufacturers to
advertise these all-Auto cameras as having a 'Pro Manual Mode'.
 >> Stay informed about: best small digital for indoor photos 

"Susan" <banjolady.susan.TakeThisOut@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:cKg7g.1477$NB6.174@trndny03...
> just wondering about the best small (non SLR) digital for indoor photos. I
> have a couple of tiny pentaxes which are good outdoors but are terrible
> indoors. i cannot be bothered with a big camera with lots of paraphernalia
> and extra flashes etc and would like a small (does not have to be tiny
> tho)
> digital for indoor photos. am thinking of canon A620--what do you all
> think?
> thanks
> Susan

Indoor camera implies to me:
good flash
wide angle (28mm equiv)
good low light (fast lense and/or large sensor)

A620 does not have wide angle unless you buy 2 additional attachments for >
$100.

The S70 and S80 can go 28mm wide.
 >> Stay informed about: best small digital for indoor photos 

ASAAR <caught.RemoveThis@22.com> writes:

> Manual modes in all-Auto cameras usually allow you to set a slight
>amount of exposure compensation. If that makes the 'Manual Mode'
>worthy of the name, adding an ND filter could allow manufacturers to
>advertise these all-Auto cameras as having a 'Pro Manual Mode'.

On Canons, it very much depends on the camera. Some of them (e.g. S410)
have only "Auto" and "Manual", and on those Manual simply means you are
allowed to set ISO, white balance, exposure compensation, etc. Metering
is still auto.

On the other hand, some Canons have Auto, P, Av, Tv, and M. On those,
"P" (Program) is pretty much the same as "Manual" on the previous
cameras, except that the LCD will actually tell you the f/number and
shutter speed in use. And the threee additional modes provide
aperture-priority auto, shutter-priority auto, and full manual exposure.

Two different manual modes, with very different levels of adjustability.

Dave
 >> Stay informed about: best small digital for indoor photos 

On Sun, 7 May 2006 21:33:00 +0000 (UTC), Dave Martindale wrote:

> On Canons, it very much depends on the camera. Some of them (e.g.
> S410) have only "Auto" and "Manual", and on those Manual simply means
> you are allowed to set ISO, white balance, exposure compensation, etc.
> Metering is still auto.

Right. That's essentially what my old Canon S10 allows. I only
mentioned exposure compensation because that's the only control that
could allow anything like the exposure manipulation that a camera
with "real" manual settings would allow.


> On the other hand, some Canons have Auto, P, Av, Tv, and M. On those,
> "P" (Program) is pretty much the same as "Manual" on the previous
> cameras, except that the LCD will actually tell you the f/number and
> shutter speed in use. And the threee additional modes provide
> aperture-priority auto, shutter-priority auto, and full manual exposure.
>
> Two different manual modes, with very different levels of adjustability.

Yes, but those Canons aren't anything like the "all-auto" cameras
I referred to, which includes the Fuji F10 and F11 that this branch
of the thread was considering. These cameras are far superior for
many indoor or other low light situations that the OP is concerned
about, but they don't have the "real" Manual and Program Modes that
the OP might be expecting, since she is considering Canon's A620.
I'm surprised that Fuji hasn't yet offered a non-all-auto camera
having the F10/F11's sensor (and a viewfinder, and either 2 or 4 AA
batteries, as used in many of their other cameras). I'm sure that
they would sell many of them, and I'd be waiting in line for mine.
 >> Stay informed about: best small digital for indoor photos 

ASAAR <caught.DeleteThis@22.com> writes:

> On 07 May 2006 10:16:39 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
>
> > There are significant compromises in the user interface, including no
> > manual mode (if anybody finds out how to use the so-called "manual
> > mode" in the F11 to actually set the exposure, please tell me!) and no
> > histogram display. But it takes better ISO 1600 pictures than most
> > P&S take ISO 400 pictures.
>
> Manual modes in all-Auto cameras usually allow you to set a slight
> amount of exposure compensation. If that makes the 'Manual Mode'
> worthy of the name, adding an ND filter could allow manufacturers to
> advertise these all-Auto cameras as having a 'Pro Manual Mode'.

On the F11, it really behaves as if there was supposed to be a manual
mode, but they never finished implementing it. I can select full
auto, or aperture priority, or shutter priority, and I can apply
exposure compensation, and there is *also* a place that claims to be
manual mode; there just isn't anything to control there. Looks like
code that didn't get taken out when the feature was deleted to me,
actually.

I've never encountered a P&S digital that claimed to have manual and
had only exposure compensation. The ones I've worked with (Epson
850Z, Nikon 990, Canon A60, Canon S30, Canon A610, and perhaps others
I'm forgetting) all had real manual exposure.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:dd-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/>
RKBA: <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/>
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/> <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/>
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/>
 >> Stay informed about: best small digital for indoor photos 

On 08 May 2006 00:00:21 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet wrote:

> I've never encountered a P&S digital that claimed to have manual and
> had only exposure compensation. The ones I've worked with (Epson
> 850Z, Nikon 990, Canon A60, Canon S30, Canon A610, and perhaps
> others I'm forgetting) all had real manual exposure.

That's what I found with Canon's S10 and S20 Powershots (which
share the same manual). The manual states:

> • (Auto Mode)
> A recording mode in which the camera automatically selects most
> of the settings.
>
> • (Manual Mode)
> A recording mode in which the image compression and resolution,
> exposure compensation and white balance can be manually selected.

So these seem similar to the S410 that you mentioned. The S10/S20
Auto Mode doesn't allow the flash to be set to Red-Eye Reduction or
ON. Only Auto or OFF can be is available. So these cameras have a
"Manual Mode" that is not worthy of the name.
 >> Stay informed about: best small digital for indoor photos 

thanks so much for all your advice. I already have a bunch of SD cards so
would prefer to stick to that, as well as a non proprietary battery tho I
have some little pentax batteries. I am not good at using the manual modes
so the best thing for me is if the camera shifts its own ISO around. i've
tried the various modes on various digitals but it seems it makes no
difference most of the time. fuji f11 sounds great xcept for the xd card and
prop battery. i really want a basic point and shoot that is good indoors.
thanks!
susan
--
banjolady.susan RemoveThis @verizon.net
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/harrimanhike/
 >> Stay informed about: best small digital for indoor photos 

Susan wrote:

> just wondering about the best small (non SLR) digital for indoor photos. I
> have a couple of tiny pentaxes which are good outdoors but are terrible
> indoors. i cannot be bothered with a big camera with lots of paraphernalia
> and extra flashes etc and would like a small (does not have to be tiny
> tho) digital for indoor photos. am thinking of canon A620--what do you all
> think? thanks
> Susan
> banjolady.susan.RemoveThis@verizon.net
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/harrimanhike/

I think you'll find that a DSLR with an f/1.8 or faster lens will be a lot
more satisfactory for available light, which appears to be what you are
describing. You don't need "lots of paraphernalia and extra flashes etc"
if you have a fast sensor and a fast lens.

In a point-and-shoot, a Sony DSC-R1 would probably be your best bet--it's
got a lens a little faster than most point-and-shoots and an APS-C sized
sensor that's good up to ISO 3200. Noise at high ISOs is not as good as
for DSLRs but it's still better than any point-and-shoot, but you need to
process the RAW image to get the best results.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 >> Stay informed about: best small digital for indoor photos