Filters - Advice Please

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 10:37:46 -0000, colly
wrote:

>What filters are essential, and which ones are a nice extra?

No filter is essential. A polariser is sometimes useful.

>I've found some on ebay that are very cheap, are cheap filters a false
>economy?

Yes. Buy only those you *need* and buy the best you can
afford.

--
John Bean
 >> Stay informed about: Filters - Advice Please 

a uv filter can be useful to have on the lens all the time - not
photographically but more to protect the front element of the lenses -so
that when your camera falls against a wall the filter gets damaged but not
the expensive lens. I know - it has worked for me when out in the
countryside one day trying to clamber over a drystone wall ;-((


"colly" wrote in message

> I've just bought a Canon 400D with a Sigma 17-70mm lens and a Canon
> 50mm lens. I have read a little about how useful lens filters can be,
> and would appreciate some advice.
>
> What are the essential filers? Polariser, UV, Fluorescent? I saw a
> gallery of beautiful landscape shots the other day and the
> photographer used an "ND Grad" filter on all his shots. I think there
> are many different types.
>
> What filters are essential, and which ones are a nice extra?
>
> I've found some on ebay that are very cheap, are cheap filters a false
> economy?
>
> Advice appreciated.
> Thanks
>
 >> Stay informed about: Filters - Advice Please 

colly wrote:
> I've just bought a Canon 400D with a Sigma 17-70mm lens and a Canon
> 50mm lens. I have read a little about how useful lens filters can be,
> and would appreciate some advice.
>
> What are the essential filers? Polariser, UV, Fluorescent? I saw a
> gallery of beautiful landscape shots the other day and the
> photographer used an "ND Grad" filter on all his shots. I think there
> are many different types.
>
> What filters are essential, and which ones are a nice extra?
>
> I've found some on ebay that are very cheap, are cheap filters a false
> economy?
>
> Advice appreciated.
> Thanks
>

Here are my $0.02

None are really essential but here are my choices......

A UV filter. A Circular Polarizer. An 81, 81B. or 81C Warming filter.

UV reduces haze in the air that the human eye can't always see and
protects the front of the lens.

Polarizers reduce reflection and help bring out detail and color on many
subjects.

Warming filters do just that, warm the image getting rid of blue tones.
You don't want to go too warm for most shots so an 81A or 81B at
the most are most useful.

My Dad always said there is a difference between cheap and inexpensive.
Cheap, to him and me, means inferior quality while inexpensive means
equal quality at a lower cost.

Stick with filters by Tiffen, Hoya, and if you can afford B+W or
Heliopan to name a few good filter brands. The last two are expensive......

One last point, since you have a lens that starts at 17mm I would
suggest getting "wide angel" filters which are thinner than standard
filters. With the thin filters you avoid vignetting.

Bob S
 >> Stay informed about: Filters - Advice Please 

"colly" wrote in message

> I've just bought a Canon 400D with a Sigma 17-70mm lens and a Canon
> 50mm lens. I have read a little about how useful lens filters can be,
> and would appreciate some advice.
>
> What are the essential filers? Polariser, UV, Fluorescent? I saw a
> gallery of beautiful landscape shots the other day and the
> photographer used an "ND Grad" filter on all his shots. I think there
> are many different types.

You can simulate the effects of an ND grad filter using digital tools, so
those are nice, but not essential. The most essential filter is the
polarizer, which cannot be simulated digitally in any way. Get a good brand,
as well. I've tried cheaper brands, and they usually fall apart in about a
year. My B&W filters last years.

>
> What filters are essential, and which ones are a nice extra?
>
> I've found some on ebay that are very cheap, are cheap filters a false
> economy?
>
> Advice appreciated.
> Thanks
>
 >> Stay informed about: Filters - Advice Please 

"colly" wrote in message

> I've just bought a Canon 400D with a Sigma 17-70mm lens and a Canon
> 50mm lens. I have read a little about how useful lens filters can be,
> and would appreciate some advice.
>
> What are the essential filers? Polariser, UV, Fluorescent? I saw a
> gallery of beautiful landscape shots the other day and the
> photographer used an "ND Grad" filter on all his shots. I think there
> are many different types.

Almost forgot; a good multicoated UV filter to keep on the lens at all
times, except when using the polarizer.

>
> What filters are essential, and which ones are a nice extra?
>
> I've found some on ebay that are very cheap, are cheap filters a false
> economy?
>
> Advice appreciated.
> Thanks
>
 >> Stay informed about: Filters - Advice Please 

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:06:35 -0400, Bob S wrote:

>colly wrote:
>> I've just bought a Canon 400D with a Sigma 17-70mm lens and a Canon
>> 50mm lens. I have read a little about how useful lens filters can be,
>> and would appreciate some advice.
>>
>> What are the essential filers? Polariser, UV, Fluorescent? I saw a
>> gallery of beautiful landscape shots the other day and the
>> photographer used an "ND Grad" filter on all his shots. I think there
>> are many different types.
>>
>> What filters are essential, and which ones are a nice extra?
>>
>> I've found some on ebay that are very cheap, are cheap filters a false
>> economy?
>>
>> Advice appreciated.
>> Thanks
>>
>
>Here are my $0.02
>
>None are really essential but here are my choices......
>
>A UV filter. A Circular Polarizer. An 81, 81B. or 81C Warming filter.
>
>UV reduces haze in the air that the human eye can't always see and
>protects the front of the lens.
>
>Polarizers reduce reflection and help bring out detail and color on many
>subjects.
>
>Warming filters do just that, warm the image getting rid of blue tones.
> You don't want to go too warm for most shots so an 81A or 81B at
>the most are most useful.
>
>My Dad always said there is a difference between cheap and inexpensive.
> Cheap, to him and me, means inferior quality while inexpensive means
>equal quality at a lower cost.
>
>Stick with filters by Tiffen, Hoya, and if you can afford B+W or
>Heliopan to name a few good filter brands. The last two are expensive......
>
>One last point, since you have a lens that starts at 17mm I would
>suggest getting "wide angel" filters which are thinner than standard
>filters. With the thin filters you avoid vignetting.
>
>Bob S

Interesting that you should mention Tiffen, as their $80+ polarizer filters are
the ones that were worse than $12 generics when I tested various brands.

You get what you pay for! Right? Think again.
 >> Stay informed about: Filters - Advice Please 

HTangler wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:06:35 -0400, Bob S wrote:
>

> Interesting that you should mention Tiffen, as their $80+ polarizer filters are
> the ones that were worse than $12 generics when I tested various brands.
>
> You get what you pay for! Right? Think again.
>

True, not always....

How did you or how do you test a polarizer?
Bob S
 >> Stay informed about: Filters - Advice Please 

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message

>
> I would agree that worrying greatly about the quality of a lens and
> then adding a filter, just to protect it is a questionable decision.
>

I guess it depends on your shooting conditions. Since I bought my 24-105,
I've had to replace the Uv filter twice due to dings and scratches. Better
that than my lens, I guess. Yes, another story...
 >> Stay informed about: Filters - Advice Please 

"Kinon O'Cann" wrote in message

>
...
>
> I guess it depends on your shooting conditions. Since I bought my 24-105,
> I've had to replace the Uv filter twice due to dings and scratches. Better
> that than my lens, I guess. Yes, another story...

I have had several personal lenses with dings and scratches. I have
never bothered to replace a lens for that reason.

I have not had any for a long time, but today I would use a very fine
tip black felt tip marker to black out the flaw. Then do some test to see
if under critical conditions you can see the difference. In fact I would
recommend doing the same with and without a filter to see if you can see any
reduced image quality either way. I doubt if you will. It is sort of
amazing how much damage a lens can have and not show any effect of it on the
finished product.

I don't bother with the filters, mostly because of the bother and to a
lesser extend due to the real, but small increase chance of flare.

It might be fun to black out the damage to one of those damaged filters
if you still have one and do a test comparing the results from a "repaired"
filter and no filter and a new un-blemished filter.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit
 >> Stay informed about: Filters - Advice Please 

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:39:39 +0100, "kamerakid"
wrote:

>a uv filter can be useful to have on the lens all the time - not
>photographically but more to protect the front element of the lenses -so
>that when your camera falls against a wall the filter gets damaged but not
>the expensive lens. I know - it has worked for me when out in the
>countryside one day trying to clamber over a drystone wall ;-((

Use a good lens hood to protect the lens, not a UV filter. A lens hood
not only protects the lens, butalso keeps out stray light, improving
contrast. Filters cost money, collect dust, can cause vignetting, and
give ghost images in high contrast scenes.

If you are going to use a filter to protect the lens, make sure you
put one on the back of the lens too, in case it falls on the back.

Ed
 >> Stay informed about: Filters - Advice Please 

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:06:35 -0400, Bob S
wrote:
>UV reduces haze in the air that the human eye can't always see [...]

Nor can ordinary digital cameras for all practical purposes.

>Polarizers reduce reflection and help bring out detail and color on many
>subjects.

Yes.

>Warming filters do just that, warm the image getting rid of blue tones.

As can setting a correct WB, making a warming filter totally
redundant.

Your choices seem more film-centric than I expect in aq
digital group



--
John Bean
 >> Stay informed about: Filters - Advice Please 

colly wrote:
> I've just bought a Canon 400D with a Sigma 17-70mm lens and a Canon
> 50mm lens. I have read a little about how useful lens filters can be,
> and would appreciate some advice.
>
> What are the essential filers? Polariser, UV, Fluorescent? I saw a
> gallery of beautiful landscape shots the other day and the
> photographer used an "ND Grad" filter on all his shots. I think there
> are many different types.
>
> What filters are essential, and which ones are a nice extra?
>
> I've found some on ebay that are very cheap, are cheap filters a false
> economy?
>
> Advice appreciated.
> Thanks
>
Check out the book by Lee Frost ISBN 0715314009.
You can browse through parts of the book on Amazon.

There are sections in the book that are film centric (color balancing,
reciprocity balancing and filters for black and white film) but his
descriptions of filter systems, poloarizing at wide angles and graduated
neutral density filters apply to both film and digital.

JD
 >> Stay informed about: Filters - Advice Please 

Better is a lens hood *and* a front clear filter. The hood protects the
front of the lens and acts as a shade for extraneous light, but the clear
filter protects the front element against dust, splashes, etc. I find that
after several years I need to replace the front filter from those inevitable
cleaningS out in the field--much better than replacing the front element!

In terms of the filter degrading the image: I have done some fairly
extensive tests with and without filter and find that the degradation is
imperceptible at 100% magnification. This is with a garden variety MC clear
filter. The smallest bit of focusing error has a much greater effect on the
final sharpness than that extra piece of glass. There are cases where you
will get extra ghosting when you have very bright lights shining in the
lens, but in that case it is easy to take the filter off for a few
minutes...

BTW high quality filters are much more important with very long lenses. With
a 50 and a 17-70 you don't have to worry.

You don't need any CC filters with digital, as all color correction can be
done with a decent graphics app. A polarizer is very valuable, as it cuts
non-specular reflections, making colors richer, as well as doing the famous
darkening-the-sky bit. Make sure to buy a circular polarizer, so as not to
screw up the metering and/or focusing of your digital camera.

ND grads are nice, but you can do a lot of that digitally, especially if you
are working with RAW files. The screw-in ones are practically useless, as
you always have the grad transition in the exact middle of the frame. Better
are the Cokins or whatever that can be moved, but the plastic ones scratch
absurdly easily. The Tiffen glass grads are the best I've found, but are
absurdly expensive. Mounting all these movable grads is a pain--unless you
are Ansel Adams and have all day to do one image you will find them a
bother.

Then comes the fact that no matter what, the grad threshold is a straight
line. You also have to decide on the ND factor and whether you want soft or
hard grads (with gradual or sharper transitions). Are they useful?
Absolutely, for some things. Are they a pain? Absolutley, for all things...

If you shoot a lot of red stuff and fall foilage you can consider a red
enhancing filter. This works by notching the orange transmission quite
deeply at one relatively narrow wavelength, so it doesn't screw up the
overall color balance, and this is not something you can do easily
digitally. It has some limited usefulness for some things, but is certainly
not essential.

You can also consider a soft-focus filter (there are many different styles
available that all give slightly different effects) if you like that sort of
thing. The effect is much more complex than just using a gaussian blur in
PS, although with some work you can do nice soft-focus effects in PS.

Finally there are all the cross-filters and gimmick filters that can't
easily be duplicated digitally, but they are all...gimmicky...and you
probably don't need to even consider them unless you need to do that kind of
gimmicky stuff for some reason.

Toby

"EAL" schrieb im Newsbeitrag

> On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:39:39 +0100, "kamerakid"
> wrote:
>
>>a uv filter can be useful to have on the lens all the time - not
>>photographically but more to protect the front element of the lenses -so
>>that when your camera falls against a wall the filter gets damaged but not
>>the expensive lens. I know - it has worked for me when out in the
>>countryside one day trying to clamber over a drystone wall ;-((
>
> Use a good lens hood to protect the lens, not a UV filter. A lens hood
> not only protects the lens, butalso keeps out stray light, improving
> contrast. Filters cost money, collect dust, can cause vignetting, and
> give ghost images in high contrast scenes.
>
> If you are going to use a filter to protect the lens, make sure you
> put one on the back of the lens too, in case it falls on the back.
>
> Ed
 >> Stay informed about: Filters - Advice Please