Digital ICE and Black & White Film....

On Mar 8, 4:42 am, "Sniper" <snipern....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 8, 4:28 pm, Paul Rubin <http://phr...@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>
> > "David J. Littleboy" <davi....RemoveThis@gol.com> writes:
>
> > > You could try shooting the "chromogenic" films....
> > > You could also just shoot color film and desaturate in Photoshop.
>
> > I think most people who ask about scanning on this newsgroup these
> > days probably have a bunch of old negs they want to scan. Unless they
> > say otherwise I'd assume they're not shooting any type of film any more.
>
> Yes, I have a whole load of old archive black and white negs which
> I need to digitize. While the colour was easy to do, the black and
> whites take ages as alot of the black and white film is very scuffed
> up.
>
> Oh well, nevermind.
>
> thanks for the replies


The Polaroid Dust and Scratch works at a slight expense of sharpness.
For a scanner try the Epson V700, not quite the LS5000 but getting
closer. The Pro Section of the software has Epson's dust removal tool,
I've been doing color slides so I have been using Digital Ice. If the
Epson version works on reflected light it may be the answer. Have a
V700 sitting next to me but no B&W negs, they are at home.

Tom
 >> Stay informed about: Digital ICE and Black & White Film.... 

"Sniper" <snipernest.DeleteThis@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi, is there any scanner on the market today which can remove dust
> scratches etc from Black & White film. I have the nikon coolscan
> 5000 at the moment which is great for removing junk from colour film
> but does nothing for B&W.

None that I know of. Alas. A new kind of technology would need to be
developed as infrared won't do the job on B&W.

> As you guys know it is extremely time
> consuming removing all of this stuff manually with photoshop etc.

Agreed. It's the one part of semi-digital B&W photography that I do
not like.
 >> Stay informed about: Digital ICE and Black & White Film.... 

"Sniper" <snipernest.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, is there any scanner on the market today
> which can remove dust scratches etc from Black & White film. I have
> the nikon coolscan 5000 at the moment which is great for removing junk
> from colour film but does nothing for B&W.
>
> As you guys know it is extremely time
> consuming removing all of this stuff manually with photoshop etc.

The digital ice trick requires that the film be transarent to IR, and silver
isn't. Sigh. Polaroid used to have a free dust and scratch removal Photoshop
plugin that some people liked. Epson has made some scanners that use a
reflective dust detecting system, but they're poor scanners compared to the
Nikon 5000.

You could try shooting the "chromogenic" films. Lots of people like Ilford
XP2 Super, and Kodak used to make a couple. These are color negative
materials that don't do color. (Some people claim that these are "completely
grain free", which I found to be an enormous lie. YMMV. (They need to be
overexposed somewhat, apparently, but I never got around to trying that.))

You could also just shoot color film and desaturate in Photoshop. I've seen
some gorgeous B&W work done this way with Provia 100F (a slide film, as you
probably know, but a slide film with surprisingly good highlight retention.)

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 >> Stay informed about: Digital ICE and Black & White Film.... 

"David J. Littleboy" <davidjl DeleteThis @gol.com> writes:
> You could try shooting the "chromogenic" films....
> You could also just shoot color film and desaturate in Photoshop.

I think most people who ask about scanning on this newsgroup these
days probably have a bunch of old negs they want to scan. Unless they
say otherwise I'd assume they're not shooting any type of film any more.
 >> Stay informed about: Digital ICE and Black & White Film.... 

"tomm42" <tmonego.RemoveThis@wildblue.net> writes:

> For a scanner try the Epson V700, not quite the LS5000 but getting
> closer. The Pro Section of the software has Epson's dust removal tool,
> I've been doing color slides so I have been using Digital Ice. If the
> Epson version works on reflected light it may be the answer. Have a
> V700 sitting next to me but no B&W negs, they are at home.

In my very limited experience, Epson Scan's own dust removal softens
the image quite a bit. The one in Silverfast is more interactive and
gives you a better impression of what is getting removed from the
image, but it's still tedious.
 >> Stay informed about: Digital ICE and Black & White Film.... 

"Toni Nikkanen" <toni DeleteThis @morgoth.tuug.fi> wrote:
> "tomm42" <tmonego DeleteThis @wildblue.net> writes:
>
>> For a scanner try the Epson V700, not quite the LS5000 but getting
>> closer. The Pro Section of the software has Epson's dust removal tool,
>> I've been doing color slides so I have been using Digital Ice. If the
>> Epson version works on reflected light it may be the answer. Have a
>> V700 sitting next to me but no B&W negs, they are at home.
>
> In my very limited experience, Epson Scan's own dust removal softens
> the image quite a bit. The one in Silverfast is more interactive and
> gives you a better impression of what is getting removed from the
> image, but it's still tedious.

But the V700 ICE is IR-based, and thus has the same problem as the Nikon
5000, namely they don't work with B&W. In a scanner that's not as good. (The
OP already owns a 5000.)

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 >> Stay informed about: Digital ICE and Black & White Film.... 

"David J. Littleboy" <davidjl RemoveThis @gol.com> writes:

> But the V700 ICE is IR-based, and thus has the same problem as the Nikon
> 5000, namely they don't work with B&W. In a scanner that's not as good. (The
> OP already owns a 5000.)

I am talking about the Dust Removal feature in Epson Scan
software. There are two dust removal systems in Epson Scan, one is ICE
and the other is Epson's own software-only feature that works equally
(badly) on all material.
Silverfast also has a software-only dust removal feature (along with ICE)
that gives more control.
 >> Stay informed about: Digital ICE and Black & White Film.... 

"Toni Nikkanen" <toni.RemoveThis@morgoth.tuug.fi> wrote:
> "David J. Littleboy" <davidjl.RemoveThis@gol.com> writes:
>
>> But the V700 ICE is IR-based, and thus has the same problem as the Nikon
>> 5000, namely they don't work with B&W. In a scanner that's not as good.
>> (The
>> OP already owns a 5000.)
>
> I am talking about the Dust Removal feature in Epson Scan
> software. There are two dust removal systems in Epson Scan, one is ICE
> and the other is Epson's own software-only feature that works equally
> (badly) on all material.

Ah. Sorry. That makes sense. Epson didn't have that back in the 2400 days...

> Silverfast also has a software-only dust removal feature (along with ICE)
> that gives more control.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 >> Stay informed about: Digital ICE and Black & White Film.... 

On Mar 8, 12:29 pm, Paul J Gans <g....TakeThisOut@panix.com> wrote:
> Sniper <snipern....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Mar 8, 4:28 pm, Paul Rubin <http://phr...@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
> >> "David J. Littleboy" <davi....TakeThisOut@gol.com> writes:
>
> >> > You could try shooting the "chromogenic" films....
> >> > You could also just shoot color film and desaturate in Photoshop.
>
> >> I think most people who ask about scanning on this newsgroup these
> >> days probably have a bunch of old negs they want to scan. Unless they
> >> say otherwise I'd assume they're not shooting any type of film any more.
> > Yes, I have a whole load of old archive black and white negs which
> >I need to digitize. While the colour was easy to do, the black and
> >whites take ages as alot of the black and white film is very scuffed
> >up.
> > Oh well, nevermind.
> > thanks for the replies
>
> I would think that since there is no "digital ice" solution,
> the most important thing is to get the B&W stuff scanned before
> it gets even more scuffed up.
>
> --
> --- Paul J. Gans- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Sorry to jump in here, but is there any site with better explanations
about the software that comes with the scanner? I have the Nikon
CoolScan V ED, which is close to the 5000 the OP has. It does a great
job with the old slides I have (some over 40 years old), but I don't
think I'm getting everything out that I could. I assume it's best to
get as much out of the slide first before Photoshopping (really,
Elements-ing) afterwards. I've tried to read the manual that came with
the thing, but boy, it assumes a HIGH level of digital competence.
Thanks, and again, I'm only leaping in here because the OP has a
similar scanner to mine. (I didn't even know that the ICE worked
because of IR...)
David
 >> Stay informed about: Digital ICE and Black & White Film.... 

Sniper <snipernest.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mar 8, 4:28 pm, Paul Rubin <http://phr...@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>> "David J. Littleboy" <davi....RemoveThis@gol.com> writes:
>>
>> > You could try shooting the "chromogenic" films....
>> > You could also just shoot color film and desaturate in Photoshop.
>>
>> I think most people who ask about scanning on this newsgroup these
>> days probably have a bunch of old negs they want to scan. Unless they
>> say otherwise I'd assume they're not shooting any type of film any more.

> Yes, I have a whole load of old archive black and white negs which
>I need to digitize. While the colour was easy to do, the black and
>whites take ages as alot of the black and white film is very scuffed
>up.

> Oh well, nevermind.

> thanks for the replies

I would think that since there is no "digital ice" solution,
the most important thing is to get the B&W stuff scanned before
it gets even more scuffed up.

--
--- Paul J. Gans
 >> Stay informed about: Digital ICE and Black & White Film.... 

"Sniper" <snipernest.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 8, 4:28 pm, Paul Rubin <http://phr...@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>> "David J. Littleboy" <davi....DeleteThis@gol.com> writes:
>>
>> > You could try shooting the "chromogenic" films....
>> > You could also just shoot color film and desaturate in Photoshop.
>>
>> I think most people who ask about scanning on this newsgroup these
>> days probably have a bunch of old negs they want to scan. Unless they
>> say otherwise I'd assume they're not shooting any type of film any more.
>
> Yes, I have a whole load of old archive black and white negs which
> I need to digitize. While the colour was easy to do, the black and
> whites take ages as alot of the black and white film is very scuffed
> up.
>
> Oh well, nevermind.

Here's the Polaroid dust and scratch removal tool.

http://www.polaroid.com/service/software/poladsr/poladsr.html

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 >> Stay informed about: Digital ICE and Black & White Film....