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Does *Anyone* Here Like Kodak Digital Cameras?

 
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mutefan

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Since: Jun 22, 2006
Posts: 94



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:15 am
Post subject: Does *Anyone* Here Like Kodak Digital Cameras?
Archived from groups: rec>photo>digital (more info?)

I purchased and then canceled an order for a Kodak that sounded really
attractive to me. Folks here have advised certain priorities; other
reviewers on other sites as well. But when I have a choice between a
Kodak 7.1 MP with 12X optical zoom, IS, *and* the ability to record RAW
files, versus an exactly priced Canon at 6.1 (or Panasonic) with no
RAW, it would seem a no-brainer.

Are Kodak cameras just the victim of elitism? Exactly how bad is the
noise-at-high-ISO issue, or is this a digital straw man you'd find with
other manufacturers of P&Ss? CNET said (about the Kodak P712), If you
want to spend this much money (or something to that affect), buy the
Canon PowerShot S3.

I've owned two Canons (and returned the Digital Rebel). My first
camera was a 4 MP Hewlett Packard. While the PowerShot A620 was a
magnificent camera when it decided not to shake--a *really* magnificent
camera--I find it hard to believe Kodak would invest their money into
creating one lemon after another.

Anyway, I Googled this group to see if I could find the source of the
anti-Kodak-itis, but I found nothing. So I'll just ask: Why the
anti-Kodak bias?

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Ron Hunter

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Since: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 2800



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:35 am
Post subject: Re: Does *Anyone* Here Like Kodak Digital Cameras? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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wrote:
> I purchased and then canceled an order for a Kodak that sounded really
> attractive to me. Folks here have advised certain priorities; other
> reviewers on other sites as well. But when I have a choice between a
> Kodak 7.1 MP with 12X optical zoom, IS, *and* the ability to record RAW
> files, versus an exactly priced Canon at 6.1 (or Panasonic) with no
> RAW, it would seem a no-brainer.
>
> Are Kodak cameras just the victim of elitism? Exactly how bad is the
> noise-at-high-ISO issue, or is this a digital straw man you'd find with
> other manufacturers of P&Ss? CNET said (about the Kodak P712), If you
> want to spend this much money (or something to that affect), buy the
> Canon PowerShot S3.
>
> I've owned two Canons (and returned the Digital Rebel). My first
> camera was a 4 MP Hewlett Packard. While the PowerShot A620 was a
> magnificent camera when it decided not to shake--a *really* magnificent
> camera--I find it hard to believe Kodak would invest their money into
> creating one lemon after another.
>
> Anyway, I Googled this group to see if I could find the source of the
> anti-Kodak-itis, but I found nothing. So I'll just ask: Why the
> anti-Kodak bias?
>

Yes, there is a distinct anti-Kodak Pro-Canon bias among posters here.
First because Kodak caters to the masses of photographers, rather than
the serious amateur, or professional (which includes many, if not most,
of the posters here). They consider Kodak beneath their notice.

Now, re the matter of high noise, with high ISO. It is a function of the
sensor, and, basically, the smaller the sensor element for each pixel,
the higher will be the noise relative to the 'signal'. Since DSLRs have
larger sensors with more surface/pixel, they can produce photos with
lower noise at a comparable ISO than a P&S camera, Kodak, Canon, or
whatever.

I suggest you ignore the bias in the group, and make your own choices,
after all, you are the one who will pay the bill, and use the camera.

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Randall Ainsworth

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Since: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 548



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:35 am
Post subject: Re: Does *Anyone* Here Like Kodak Digital Cameras? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article , Ron Hunter
wrote:

> Yes, there is a distinct anti-Kodak Pro-Canon bias among posters here.
> First because Kodak caters to the masses of photographers, rather than
> the serious amateur, or professional (which includes many, if not most,
> of the posters here). They consider Kodak beneath their notice.

They're not that great of cameras to begin with. And that stupid dock
thing is just...stupid. You've gotta drag that dock all over creation
to get the pictures out.
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Little Juice Coupe

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Since: Dec 02, 2006
Posts: 70



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:35 am
Post subject: Re: Does *Anyone* Here Like Kodak Digital Cameras? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I have the V610 and for a pockable camera I am very happy with it. 10X zoom
and it fits in a shirt pocket. Image quality is very good for such a camera.
It isn't a dSLR but it is a good camera. Kodak does make a couple of nice
ones.

ljc


wrote in message

>I purchased and then canceled an order for a Kodak that sounded really
> attractive to me. Folks here have advised certain priorities; other
> reviewers on other sites as well. But when I have a choice between a
> Kodak 7.1 MP with 12X optical zoom, IS, *and* the ability to record RAW
> files, versus an exactly priced Canon at 6.1 (or Panasonic) with no
> RAW, it would seem a no-brainer.
>
> Are Kodak cameras just the victim of elitism? Exactly how bad is the
> noise-at-high-ISO issue, or is this a digital straw man you'd find with
> other manufacturers of P&Ss? CNET said (about the Kodak P712), If you
> want to spend this much money (or something to that affect), buy the
> Canon PowerShot S3.
>
> I've owned two Canons (and returned the Digital Rebel). My first
> camera was a 4 MP Hewlett Packard. While the PowerShot A620 was a
> magnificent camera when it decided not to shake--a *really* magnificent
> camera--I find it hard to believe Kodak would invest their money into
> creating one lemon after another.
>
> Anyway, I Googled this group to see if I could find the source of the
> anti-Kodak-itis, but I found nothing. So I'll just ask: Why the
> anti-Kodak bias?
>
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gerrit

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Since: Jan 06, 2007
Posts: 14



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:55 am
Post subject: Re: Does *Anyone* Here Like Kodak Digital Cameras? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

wrote in message

> I purchased and then canceled an order for a Kodak that sounded really
> attractive to me. Folks here have advised certain priorities; other
> reviewers on other sites as well. But when I have a choice between a
> Kodak 7.1 MP with 12X optical zoom, IS, *and* the ability to record RAW
> files, versus an exactly priced Canon at 6.1 (or Panasonic) with no
> RAW, it would seem a no-brainer.
>
> Are Kodak cameras just the victim of elitism? Exactly how bad is the
> noise-at-high-ISO issue, or is this a digital straw man you'd find with
> other manufacturers of P&Ss? CNET said (about the Kodak P712), If you
> want to spend this much money (or something to that affect), buy the
> Canon PowerShot S3.
>
> I've owned two Canons (and returned the Digital Rebel). My first
> camera was a 4 MP Hewlett Packard. While the PowerShot A620 was a
> magnificent camera when it decided not to shake--a *really* magnificent
> camera--I find it hard to believe Kodak would invest their money into
> creating one lemon after another.
>
> Anyway, I Googled this group to see if I could find the source of the
> anti-Kodak-itis, but I found nothing. So I'll just ask: Why the
> anti-Kodak bias?
>

I have a Kodak DX6430 and a Nikon D50.
I have been very happy with the Kodak, which I purchased because of the
Schneider lens. My only problem with it is the shutter lag but that is
common to lots of digital cameras. If anyone wants to buy a pocket size
camera I would recommend a Kodak with a Schneider lens. If you want
something larger then I would have to do some research first - meaning going
to the shops with my own memory card and taking a few shots then going home
and downloading to the computer and comparing.
Of course a DSLR is preferred for times when size does not matter.
BTW I do NOT use the Kodak software at all. Nor the Nikon software for that
matter. I consider something like Photoshop and Irfanview much superior.

But once again Kodak cameras are by no means always duds.

Gerrit - Oz
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David J Taylor

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Since: Mar 24, 2006
Posts: 680



(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:55 am
Post subject: Re: Does *Anyone* Here Like Kodak Digital Cameras? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

wrote:
[]
> Anyway, I Googled this group to see if I could find the source of the
> anti-Kodak-itis, but I found nothing. So I'll just ask: Why the
> anti-Kodak bias?

Until recently, Kodak employed too much JPEG compression which ruined any
inherent quality they might have had. Perhaps that contributed, plus
their software wasn't all that great.

David
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Ron Hunter

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Since: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 2800



(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:55 am
Post subject: Re: Does *Anyone* Here Like Kodak Digital Cameras? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

David J Taylor wrote:
> wrote:
> []
>> Anyway, I Googled this group to see if I could find the source of the
>> anti-Kodak-itis, but I found nothing. So I'll just ask: Why the
>> anti-Kodak bias?
>
> Until recently, Kodak employed too much JPEG compression which ruined any
> inherent quality they might have had. Perhaps that contributed, plus
> their software wasn't all that great.
>
> David
>
>
The software isn't great. It is slow, and invasive. On the other hand,
most software included with a digital camera isn't much better, and few
people actually USE the included software.
As for excessive compression, true. Kodak needs to pay attention to
falling flash card prices and back off on that compression. My wife's
new Kodak C743 compresses the 7.1mp image to only 2meg, or less. This
ia about 10:1 compression, and is, in my opinion, excessive.

I believe the camera the OP mentioned allows choice of compression,
which Kodak has long ignored.
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Mr.Bolshoyhuy

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Since: May 25, 2006
Posts: 49



(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:32 am
Post subject: Re: Does *Anyone* Here Like Kodak Digital Cameras? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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wrote:
>
> CNET said (about the Kodak P712), If you
> want to spend this much money (or something to that affect), buy the
> Canon PowerShot S3.

The only thing that the S3 has over the P712 is the rotating LCD.
Which ifcourse will be over used and damaged in 1 month.
The P712 has a flash hot shoe, thereby your pics will be much better.
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ASAAR

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Since: Aug 02, 2005
Posts: 3980



(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:58 am
Post subject: Re: Does *Anyone* Here Like Kodak Digital Cameras? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:18:29 -0800, What Randall Ainsworth wrote
Ainsworth repeating, but . . . :

>> Yes, there is a distinct anti-Kodak Pro-Canon bias among posters here.
>> First because Kodak caters to the masses of photographers, rather than
>> the serious amateur, or professional (which includes many, if not most,
>> of the posters here). They consider Kodak beneath their notice.
>
> They're not that great of cameras to begin with. And that stupid dock
> thing is just...stupid. You've gotta drag that dock all over creation
> to get the pictures out.

Yeah. It's too bad that Kodak cameras aren't designed to allow
their memory cards to be removed and placed in card readers.
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ray

External


Since: Dec 07, 2006
Posts: 873



(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:19 am
Post subject: Re: Does *Anyone* Here Like Kodak Digital Cameras? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:15:17 -0800, mutefan wrote:

> I purchased and then canceled an order for a Kodak that sounded really
> attractive to me. Folks here have advised certain priorities; other
> reviewers on other sites as well. But when I have a choice between a
> Kodak 7.1 MP with 12X optical zoom, IS, *and* the ability to record RAW
> files, versus an exactly priced Canon at 6.1 (or Panasonic) with no
> RAW, it would seem a no-brainer.

My first digital camera was a Kodak DC210+ - I LOVE that camera.
Resolution is only 1152x864 but it does a great job - I've printed 8x10
photos with it for publicity pictures at a community theatre. My most
recent digital camera is a Kodak P850 - bought refurb from the Kodak
online store for $250 plus $50 for a printer doc. I think I'm in love
again. I've not yet spent much time with it, but it seems to have
everything I could ever need and MUCH better organized that my previous
Minolta S414. I've started processing the raw files, and I can certainly
see the advantages.

>
> Are Kodak cameras just the victim of elitism? Exactly how bad is the
> noise-at-high-ISO issue, or is this a digital straw man you'd find with
> other manufacturers of P&Ss? CNET said (about the Kodak P712), If you
> want to spend this much money (or something to that affect), buy the
> Canon PowerShot S3.

IMHO - I've evaluated a number of high zoom EVFs. I've found two makers
with enough resolution in the EVF to make me consider them. One was a
discontinued Minolta, the other is Kodak. The Kodak EVFs provide 237k
pixels in the EVF - certainly it could be better, but it is SO MUCH better
than everyone else's 110k pixels (or less) that it came down to which
Kodak model I would choose.

>
> I've owned two Canons (and returned the Digital Rebel). My first
> camera was a 4 MP Hewlett Packard. While the PowerShot A620 was a
> magnificent camera when it decided not to shake--a *really* magnificent
> camera--I find it hard to believe Kodak would invest their money into
> creating one lemon after another.
>
> Anyway, I Googled this group to see if I could find the source of the
> anti-Kodak-itis, but I found nothing. So I'll just ask: Why the
> anti-Kodak bias?

I think it's 'eliteism' - folks think they aren't cool if they don't have
the latest Nikon or Canon (actually I stopped buying Canon products
several years ago when it became apparent they had no support for Linux -
I now use Epson printers and scanners). Another factor could be that Kodak
no longer sells a branded DSLR.

I happen to think they are fine cameras - and I'd buy again from the
online store.
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ray

External


Since: Dec 07, 2006
Posts: 873



(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:22 am
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On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:18:29 -0800, Randall Ainsworth wrote:

> In article , Ron Hunter
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, there is a distinct anti-Kodak Pro-Canon bias among posters here.
>> First because Kodak caters to the masses of photographers, rather than
>> the serious amateur, or professional (which includes many, if not most,
>> of the posters here). They consider Kodak beneath their notice.
>
> They're not that great of cameras to begin with. And that stupid dock
> thing is just...stupid. You've gotta drag that dock all over creation
> to get the pictures out.

WRONG. The point is that the dock is a convenience. You can plug the
camera directly into the computer or use a USB card reader - just like any
other digital camera. My P850 also came with an external battery charger -
so, no, I don't need to take the dock with me. BTW the printer dock is
cool - it makes good pictures with a minimum of hassle.
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ray

External


Since: Dec 07, 2006
Posts: 873



(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:23 am
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On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:07:22 +0000, David J Taylor wrote:

> wrote:
> []
>> Anyway, I Googled this group to see if I could find the source of the
>> anti-Kodak-itis, but I found nothing. So I'll just ask: Why the
>> anti-Kodak bias?
>
> Until recently, Kodak employed too much JPEG compression which ruined any
> inherent quality they might have had. Perhaps that contributed, plus
> their software wasn't all that great.
>
> David

I don't agree with that assessment. The photos I got from my old DC210+
were smaller than photos from other similar resolution cameras, but it
always seemed to me that the detail was there.
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Neil Ellwood

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Since: Oct 27, 2006
Posts: 126



(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Does *Anyone* Here Like Kodak Digital Cameras? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:15:17 -0800, mutefan wrote:

>
> Anyway, I Googled this group to see if I could find the source of the
> anti-Kodak-itis, but I found nothing. So I'll just ask: Why the
> anti-Kodak bias?

What anti-Kodak bias?

--
Neil
Reverse 'ra' and delete 'l'.
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David J Taylor

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Since: Mar 24, 2006
Posts: 680



(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:56 pm
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Mr.Bolshoyhuy wrote:
[]
> The only thing that the S3 has over the P712 is the rotating LCD.
> Which ifcourse will be over used and damaged in 1 month.

What makes you say that? Whilst I can't comment on Canon, the swivel LCD
on my Nikon 8400 has been fine for over 2 years now - certainly not
"damaged in one month".

David
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ASAAR

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Since: Aug 02, 2005
Posts: 3980



(Msg. 15) Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:56 pm
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On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:11:49 GMT, David J Taylor wrote:

>> The only thing that the S3 has over the P712 is the rotating LCD.
>> Which ifcourse will be over used and damaged in 1 month.
>
> What makes you say that? Whilst I can't comment on Canon, the swivel LCD
> on my Nikon 8400 has been fine for over 2 years now - certainly not
> "damaged in one month".

If you have to ask what makes him say that you haven't been paying
attention to BS_huy's past trolls. It's the nature of the beast.
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