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Why do polariser filters take away two stops of light?

 
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Alfred Molon

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Since: Aug 15, 2006
Posts: 48



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:19 am
Post subject: Why do polariser filters take away two stops of light?
Archived from groups: rec>photo>digital (more info?)

At least that is the case with the HTMC coated filters from Hama I'm
using. Or are there high quality coated polariser filters which do not
take away so much light?
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E300, E330 and E500 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus E330 resource - http://myolympus.org/E330/

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Malcolm Stewart

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Since: Mar 11, 2006
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:19 am
Post subject: Re: Why do polariser filters take away two stops of light? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Alfred Molon" <alfredDELETE_molon RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f4f968d168667b598b118@news.supernews.com...
> At least that is the case with the HTMC coated filters from Hama I'm
> using. Or are there high quality coated polariser filters which do not
> take away so much light?
> Alfred Molon

I'm guessing, but here goes:
1 stop for the blocking of one polarisation
and
1/2 - 1 stop for the substrate in which the active material is "held".
(Think I've measured a transmission of around 1/3 against uniformly
polarised light.)
--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

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Randy Berbaum

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Since: Oct 03, 2005
Posts: 426



(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:19 am
Post subject: Re: Why do polariser filters take away two stops of light? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Alfred Molon <alfredDELETE_molon DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
: At least that is the case with the HTMC coated filters from Hama I'm
: using. Or are there high quality coated polariser filters which do not
: take away so much light?

All pola filters will have some degree of light transmittion blocking. If
you think of the pola filter as a slat type window blind with the slats
aligned with the direction of the light path. The slats do have thickness
and thus block a portion of the light. The slats in the Pola may be
microscopicly thin but they still block a portion of the light. And this
is only increased when we require a circular Pola as the twist after the
pola that makes it a circ pola would also reduce direct light
transmittion. Then since to work tha pola is blocking all the light waves
that are undulating off axis to the filter. If you figure that up to 50%
of the light will be naturally off axis, this alone would account for
reducing light transmittion by aproximately half.I would also suspect
that even the anti reflective coatings would add some light blocking
factors. The fact that all these possible light reduction factors only
reduce the light by 2 stops is a wonder. Smile

I would suspect that there may be some ways to make a less dense pola that
would reduce the light less, but it would likely be much less effective in
rejecting off axis light (what a pola is supposed to do). And such less
effective polarizers may also be less optically clear and thus cause
slight optical abberations or inconsistancies in density across the field
of view.

Personally I plan to stick with the best quality pola I can afford and
just adjust for the 2 stop reduction. I generally don't need to use a pola
in low light conditions, anyway. Smile

Randy

==========
Randy Berbaum
Champaign, IL
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jpc

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Since: Sep 05, 2006
Posts: 12



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:19 am
Post subject: Re: Why do polariser filters take away two stops of light? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:19:46 +0200, Alfred Molon
<alfredDELETE_molon.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

>At least that is the case with the HTMC coated filters from Hama I'm
>using. Or are there high quality coated polariser filters which do not
>take away so much light?


You always loose 1 stop when you toss the unwanted polarization.
If you wanted to spend the money--about $2000US for a 50 mm
polarizer--you can buy highly efficeent scientific
polarizers--extinction rations better than 10000-- with only a 15 to
20 percent transmittion loss.

State of the art but not cost efective for photography. As from me I'm
still using the $1.00 polarizer I bought in a garage sale even though
it does have a extinction ration of 50 to a 100--a 1 to 2 percent
tranmittion in the blue.

jpc
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Roy G

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Since: Jul 22, 2006
Posts: 611



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:41 am
Post subject: Re: Why do polariser filters take away two stops of light? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Alfred Molon" <alfredDELETE_molon.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f4f968d168667b598b118@news.supernews.com...
> At least that is the case with the HTMC coated filters from Hama I'm
> using. Or are there high quality coated polariser filters which do not
> take away so much light?
> --
>
> Alfred Molon


Hi.

Does it matter "Why" ?

Is it not just sufficient to know that it does ?

Roy G
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Bob Salomon

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Since: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 192



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do polariser filters take away two stops of light? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <MPG.1f4f968d168667b598b118 RemoveThis @news.supernews.com>,
Alfred Molon <alfredDELETE_molon RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> At least that is the case with the HTMC coated filters from Hama I'm
> using. Or are there high quality coated polariser filters which do not
> take away so much light?

Because they have density. That is the brownish color. If they were
clear they would not lose light - like a UV filter.

Your Hoya HTMC does not transmit as much light to the image plane as the
SH-PMC coating does on a Heliopan filter. The Heliopan coating passes
99.9%+ of the image forming rays on to the image plane. However they are
probably within 1% of each other. The SH-PMC coating is simply more
efficient and the top layer on each side also repels dust and moisture.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
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David Littlewood

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Since: Aug 26, 2005
Posts: 270



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do polariser filters take away two stops of light? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <ec3vl1$1pd$1@wildfire.prairienet.org>, Randy Berbaum
<rberbaum DeleteThis @bluestem.prairienet.org> writes

>I would also suspect
>that even the anti reflective coatings would add some light blocking
>factors. The fact that all these possible light reduction factors only
>reduce the light by 2 stops is a wonder. Smile

Anti-reflective coatings will improve light transmission, not reduce it.
That is one of their main purposes.
>
>I would suspect that there may be some ways to make a less dense pola that
>would reduce the light less,

Oh, please find one - you could make a fortune, quite deservedly.

> but it would likely be much less effective

Sadly, almost certainly true.
> in
>rejecting off axis light (what a pola is supposed to do).

Off-axis light means something entirely different in optics. I think you
may mean light with a polarisation direction opposed to that of the
polariser.

I think Malcolm's very simple statement today has it right.

David
--
David Littlewood
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David Littlewood

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Since: Aug 26, 2005
Posts: 270



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do polariser filters take away two stops of light? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <44e56de7$0$15882$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, Malcolm
Stewart <malcolm_stewart RemoveThis @megalith.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>"Alfred Molon" <alfredDELETE_molon RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:MPG.1f4f968d168667b598b118@news.supernews.com...
>> At least that is the case with the HTMC coated filters from Hama I'm
>> using. Or are there high quality coated polariser filters which do not
>> take away so much light?
>> Alfred Molon
>
>I'm guessing, but here goes:
>1 stop for the blocking of one polarisation
>and
>1/2 - 1 stop for the substrate in which the active material is "held".
>(Think I've measured a transmission of around 1/3 against uniformly
>polarised light.)
>
Sounds just about spot on to me.

David
--
David Littlewood
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