Battery charger

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:19:45 GMT, Stephen Fisher wrote:

> The reason i am asking is that a mate has told me that that a cheap charger
> will "destroy" batteries if not used correctly whereas a good charger will
> "condition" batteries.

While a good charger is nice to have, far more batteries are
damaged by users not knowing how to treat them than by the type of
charger that is used.


> I believe the batteries i need are 2300 or 2500 (if that means anything).

It's not a matter of "needing" those. The number (of battery
capacity, measured in milliamp hours, mAh) is a guide to how long
you might expect the batteries to power your camera. A 2,400 mAh
NiMH AA cell should last about 33% longer than a 1,800 mAh cell.
What's more important is convenience and cost effectiveness. If you
can only buy 2,300mAh and 3,000mAh batteries and the latter are
twice as expensive, it's probably foolish to buy any 3,000 cells,
unless the slightly greater convenience of not having to replace
them quite as often for recharging is important to the photographer.


> My thoughts are that i need something that will take 4 batteries (that
> way i can charge batteries plus two spare overnight if needed)

Most people (including me) would agree. More important, even if
you only need to use batteries in pairs, is to get a charger that
has 4 independent charging circuits, even if you don't intend to
ever charge 1 or 3 cells at a time. Battery chargers that only
charge pairs of cells should be avoided. Also try to make sure that
there's at least one LED or other way to display battery information
for each cell. I've seen some chargers that are able to charge each
cell independently, but only had a single LED to indicate when they
had all finished charging. Having a display for each cell allows
you to notice if any individual cell is behaving differently or
perhaps suffering early failure. The individual LEDs also avoid
problems where sometimes a cell doesn't make good contact in the
charger. It's better to notice this immediately than wonder why
your freshly charged batteries were only able to last for 2 minutes
in the camera. Not many people would be able to easily determine
that only 1 of 2, or 3 of 4 cells had been charged.
 >> Stay informed about: Battery charger 

"ASAAR" <caught RemoveThis @22.com> wrote in message
news:q4lap2dg3l7t71edbbvqtcs131cvq2n123@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:19:45 GMT, Stephen Fisher wrote:
>
>> The reason i am asking is that a mate has told me that that a cheap
>> charger
>> will "destroy" batteries if not used correctly whereas a good charger
>> will
>> "condition" batteries.
>
> While a good charger is nice to have, far more batteries are
> damaged by users not knowing how to treat them than by the type of
> charger that is used.
>
>
>> I believe the batteries i need are 2300 or 2500 (if that means
>> anything).
>
> It's not a matter of "needing" those. The number (of battery
> capacity, measured in milliamp hours, mAh) is a guide to how long
> you might expect the batteries to power your camera. A 2,400 mAh
> NiMH AA cell should last about 33% longer than a 1,800 mAh cell.
> What's more important is convenience and cost effectiveness. If you
> can only buy 2,300mAh and 3,000mAh batteries and the latter are
> twice as expensive, it's probably foolish to buy any 3,000 cells,
> unless the slightly greater convenience of not having to replace
> them quite as often for recharging is important to the photographer.
>
>
>> My thoughts are that i need something that will take 4 batteries
>> (that
>> way i can charge batteries plus two spare overnight if needed)
>
> Most people (including me) would agree. More important, even if
> you only need to use batteries in pairs, is to get a charger that
> has 4 independent charging circuits, even if you don't intend to
> ever charge 1 or 3 cells at a time. Battery chargers that only
> charge pairs of cells should be avoided. Also try to make sure that
> there's at least one LED or other way to display battery information
> for each cell. I've seen some chargers that are able to charge each
> cell independently, but only had a single LED to indicate when they
> had all finished charging. Having a display for each cell allows
> you to notice if any individual cell is behaving differently or
> perhaps suffering early failure. The individual LEDs also avoid
> problems where sometimes a cell doesn't make good contact in the
> charger. It's better to notice this immediately than wonder why
> your freshly charged batteries were only able to last for 2 minutes
> in the camera. Not many people would be able to easily determine
> that only 1 of 2, or 3 of 4 cells had been charged.
>

You also want to avoid mixing cells of different capacities together
since you can get the situation (depending on how they are being
used and what the cut-off voltage is the gadget) where one cell
will get reversed. That is NOT a good thing. It is also the weak
link -- if you have a 4 cell application, 3 - 3000 mah cells and
a 1500 mah cell in series, you are basically limited to the 1500
mah cell.

mikey
 >> Stay informed about: Battery charger 

Stephen Fisher wrote:
...
..
>
> Can someone recommend a battery and charger pack for someone based
> in UK?
> The reason i am asking is that a mate has told me that that a cheap
> charger will "destroy" batteries if not used correctly whereas a good
> charger will "condition" batteries.
>

Will I would not say destroy, but a good charger will assure the best
life from your batteries. I am not up on specific chargers, they seem to
change each week, but most adjust the charge for each cell rather than using
the same charge for each cell in a group. They will usually allow charging
just one cell or a group at the same time and will have some indication of
when each cell is fully charged and will stop charging that cell.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit
 >> Stay informed about: Battery charger 

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 11:46:22 -0800, Mike Fields wrote:

> You also want to avoid mixing cells of different capacities together
> since you can get the situation (depending on how they are being
> used and what the cut-off voltage is the gadget) where one cell
> will get reversed. That is NOT a good thing. It is also the weak
> link -- if you have a 4 cell application, 3 - 3000 mah cells and
> a 1500 mah cell in series, you are basically limited to the 1500
> mah cell.

That's generally true, but other than reducing the usable
capacity, it's probably not too much of a battery killer in digital
cameras, since all of the ones I've seen would probably power off
long before the first cell approached a reverse charge. Analog
devices are the real killers, as they'll frequently continue drawing
current even when the total available voltage is as low as 1 volt.
To reinforce what you're saying though, if I detect that one
rechargeable cell out of four has gone bad, I'll *never* replace it.
All four get replaced, with the remaining 3 decent cells being used
to power devices that use only 1 or 2 or 3 AA cells. I have an mp3
player that normally gets 50 hours from a AA cell. If I can use a
bad NiMH cell in it that only is good for 30 hours per charge, I
don't consider that to be a real hardship.
 >> Stay informed about: Battery charger 

Stephen Fisher wrote:
> I have just got a canon 710 IS which can take 2 AA rechargeable NI-Mh
> batteries.
>
> Can someone recommend a battery and charger pack for someone based
> in UK?
> The reason i am asking is that a mate has told me that that a cheap
> charger will "destroy" batteries if not used correctly whereas a good
> charger will "condition" batteries.
>
> I believe the batteries i need are 2300 or 2500 (if that means
> anything).
> My thoughts are that i need something that will take 4 batteries
> (that way i can charge batteries plus two spare overnight if needed)
>
> Any advice out there?
>
> Regards
>
> Steve

You won't go far wrong with Maha chargers - available in the UK from
Nevada Radio, e.g.

http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/acatalog/maha-c204w.html

Batteries - the number tells you how long they will last - the bigger the
better (but more expensive). It tell you how much energy is stored in the
batteries, as the product of the discharge current (in milliamps [mA] and
the time you can draw that current in hours [h]).

2500 mAh - MH-AA2500 - £12.95

should last about 50% longer than:

1800 mAh - MH-AA1800 - £3.95

http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/acatalog/rechargable.html

Your choice! Many cameras take four cells rather than just two, so you
might be better off with the higher capacity batteries even though they
are more expensive. Nothing worse than running out at the wrong moment!

Nevada's home page is here:

http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/index.html

David
 >> Stay informed about: Battery charger 

In article <FqOdnd0E9rET7QjYnZ2dnUVZ_qqrnZ2d.RemoveThis@comcast.com>,
"Mike Fields" <spam_me_not_mr.gadget2@comcastDOTnet> wrote:

> You also want to avoid mixing cells of different capacities together
> since you can get the situation (depending on how they are being
> used and what the cut-off voltage is the gadget) where one cell
> will get reversed.

Not with a real smart charger that tests, measures and charges each cell
individually. Like the Ansmann Energy 8 or 16.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
 >> Stay informed about: Battery charger 

Have a look here: http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/full/n41bx_out.jpg
Fast chargers are less likely to cause "memory effect" when partially
discharged batteries are put in. Standard NiMH batteries have however a high
rate of self discharge. If you use them only every couple of weeks it is
good praktice to give them a topoff charge before use. This charger has end
of charge detection for each cell, it would still be good practice to always
use the same two cells as a pair. The new Sanyo Eneloop have drastically
reduced self - discharge, as I got my first ones only a month ago I can
however not tell anything about their longevity.

"Stephen Fisher" <scfisherNO.RemoveThis@SPAMgmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:R6clh.27403$z01.1240@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>I have just got a canon 710 IS which can take 2 AA rechargeable NI-Mh
>batteries.
>
> Can someone recommend a battery and charger pack for someone based in UK?
>
> The reason i am asking is that a mate has told me that that a cheap
> charger will "destroy" batteries if not used correctly whereas a good
> charger will "condition" batteries.
>
> I believe the batteries i need are 2300 or 2500 (if that means anything).
>
> My thoughts are that i need something that will take 4 batteries (that way
> i can charge batteries plus two spare overnight if needed)
>
> Any advice out there?
>
> Regards
>
> Steve
>
 >> Stay informed about: Battery charger 

Sorry, wrong link
"> Have a look here:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=45804&doy=29m12
> Fast chargers are less likely to cause "memory effect" when partially
> discharged batteries are put in. Standard NiMH batteries have however a
> high rate of self discharge. If you use them only every couple of weeks it
> is good praktice to give them a topoff charge before use. This charger has
> end of charge detection for each cell, it would still be good practice to
> always use the same two cells as a pair. The new Sanyo Eneloop have
> drastically reduced self - discharge, as I got my first ones only a month
> ago I can however not tell anything about their longevity.
>
> "Stephen Fisher" <scfisherNO.TakeThisOut@SPAMgmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:R6clh.27403$z01.1240@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>>I have just got a canon 710 IS which can take 2 AA rechargeable NI-Mh
>>batteries.
>>
>> Can someone recommend a battery and charger pack for someone based in
>> UK?
>>
>> The reason i am asking is that a mate has told me that that a cheap
>> charger will "destroy" batteries if not used correctly whereas a good
>> charger will "condition" batteries.
>>
>> I believe the batteries i need are 2300 or 2500 (if that means anything).
>>
>> My thoughts are that i need something that will take 4 batteries (that
>> way i can charge batteries plus two spare overnight if needed)
>>
>> Any advice out there?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Battery charger 

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:47:48 -0500, Bob Salomon wrote:

> "Mike Fields" <spam_me_not_mr.gadget2@comcastDOTnet> wrote:
>> You also want to avoid mixing cells of different capacities together
>> since you can get the situation (depending on how they are being
>> used and what the cut-off voltage is the gadget) where one cell
>> will get reversed.
>
> Not with a real smart charger that tests, measures and charges each cell
> individually. Like the Ansmann Energy 8 or 16.

The way I read this, Mike is speaking of the danger of cell
reversal when the cells are in the device (camera), and you're
speaking of cells not being in danger of being reverse charged in
smart chargers such as the Energy 8 / 16. Or did you mean that
these chargers can test and report each cell's total capacity when
fully charged, allowing weak, reduced capacity cells to be culled?
 >> Stay informed about: Battery charger 

"ASAAR" <caught RemoveThis @22.com> wrote in message
news:669bp2prpo6jv5k3ji25imvvvb7mjgbi11@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:47:48 -0500, Bob Salomon wrote:
>
>> "Mike Fields" <spam_me_not_mr.gadget2@comcastDOTnet> wrote:
>>> You also want to avoid mixing cells of different capacities together
>>> since you can get the situation (depending on how they are being
>>> used and what the cut-off voltage is the gadget) where one cell
>>> will get reversed.
>>
>> Not with a real smart charger that tests, measures and charges each
>> cell
>> individually. Like the Ansmann Energy 8 or 16.
>
> The way I read this, Mike is speaking of the danger of cell
> reversal when the cells are in the device (camera), and you're
> speaking of cells not being in danger of being reverse charged in
> smart chargers such as the Energy 8 / 16. Or did you mean that
> these chargers can test and report each cell's total capacity when
> fully charged, allowing weak, reduced capacity cells to be culled?
>

I was speaking from the standpoint of "in the camera" (which
may actually not be a major problem because the camera will
probably cut off before it gets too far down). You will be
limited to the capacity of the lowest capacity cell though.
In a charger, if you are using a charger that tests/charges each
cell individually, you are ok, but some "smart chargers" will
do 2 cells in series in which case, you will either under charge
the largest capacity cell or over charge the smaller capacity
cell depending on exactly what the charger determines for
a cut-off. As someone else pointed out, probably the worst
thing with unmatched cells would be something like a flashlight
("torch" for those on the other side of the pond ... ) where you
can take the cells WAY down. With my Minolta 7Hi that uses
4 NiMH AA cells, if I start from a full charge, run them down
significantly then recharge them in my Maha charger, I watch
when they switch to "full" (green) - any cell more than 10-15
minutes different from the others gets a black mark on it with
a felt pen - 3 marks on the same cell tells me it is not just
random and I replace the set of 4.

(note it is not really fair to judge recharge times on cells that
have been sitting around for several weeks since they all
have different self-discharge rates -- that is why I only check
when I start at a recent full charge).

mikey
 >> Stay informed about: Battery charger 

In article <669bp2prpo6jv5k3ji25imvvvb7mjgbi11 RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
ASAAR <caught RemoveThis @22.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:47:48 -0500, Bob Salomon wrote:
>
> > "Mike Fields" <spam_me_not_mr.gadget2@comcastDOTnet> wrote:
> >> You also want to avoid mixing cells of different capacities together
> >> since you can get the situation (depending on how they are being
> >> used and what the cut-off voltage is the gadget) where one cell
> >> will get reversed.
> >
> > Not with a real smart charger that tests, measures and charges each cell
> > individually. Like the Ansmann Energy 8 or 16.
>
> The way I read this, Mike is speaking of the danger of cell
> reversal when the cells are in the device (camera), and you're
> speaking of cells not being in danger of being reverse charged in
> smart chargers such as the Energy 8 / 16. Or did you mean that
> these chargers can test and report each cell's total capacity when
> fully charged, allowing weak, reduced capacity cells to be culled?

It tests each cell prior to charging and indicates the charge. Then it
does a short automatic refresh cycle for each cell followed by a rapid
charge which automatically switches to Delta V trickle charge. During
rapid and trickle charge it periodically does a refresh to make sure
that the cell is still good. If it detects a bad cell it indicates which
cell and will refresh it to attempt to recover it. If the cell still is
bad after the next day it can't be saved. They also indicate cells that
are improperly inserted in the charger. They take AA, AAA, C, D or 9V
either NiCd or NiMh in any combination.

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
 >> Stay informed about: Battery charger 

On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 19:35:07 -0500, Bob Salomon wrote:

>> The way I read this, Mike is speaking of the danger of cell
>> reversal when the cells are in the device (camera), and you're
>> speaking of cells not being in danger of being reverse charged in
>> smart chargers such as the Energy 8 / 16. Or did you mean that
>> these chargers can test and report each cell's total capacity when
>> fully charged, allowing weak, reduced capacity cells to be culled?
>
> It tests each cell prior to charging and indicates the charge. Then it
> does a short automatic refresh cycle for each cell followed by a rapid
> charge which automatically switches to Delta V trickle charge. During
> rapid and trickle charge it periodically does a refresh to make sure
> that the cell is still good. If it detects a bad cell it indicates which
> cell and will refresh it to attempt to recover it. If the cell still is
> bad after the next day it can't be saved. They also indicate cells that
> are improperly inserted in the charger. They take AA, AAA, C, D or 9V
> either NiCd or NiMh in any combination.

That's better than many chargers, and sounds quite similar to a 4
bay AA, AAA, C, D, 9V charger that I bought from Radio Shack many
years ago. Is there any chance that RS ever marketed an Ansmann
charger with their own name on it? It had, btw, an LCD that
provided a digital readout of each cell's voltage and had more
features but I don't recall them all.

What I'd want is for the charger to indicate the current capacity
of the cells. So I'd be able to see that a 2,100 mAh AA cell had
declined after a couple of years to perhaps 1,700 mAh. From your
description of the Energy 8 / 16 chargers it isn't clear that they
provide this information. If it does, great! But if not, with a
2,000 mAh cell that is 3/4 depleted, will the initial test (prior to
charging) indicate 500 mAh worth of charge remaining?
 >> Stay informed about: Battery charger 

In article <cmjbp2doa60vghjeko0677hiq23jc0d05b RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
ASAAR <caught RemoveThis @22.com> wrote:



> That's better than many chargers, and sounds quite similar to a 4
> bay AA, AAA, C, D, 9V charger that I bought from Radio Shack many
> years ago. Is there any chance that RS ever marketed an Ansmann
> charger with their own name on it?

No. Ansmann does make chargers for Leica but not Rado Schack

--
To reply no_ HPMarketing Corp.
 >> Stay informed about: Battery charger