Batteries

a.RemoveThis@a.com (Ed) wrote in news:vPGdnYK_f82d9eTbnZ2dnUVZ_tCtnZ2d@rcn.net:

> Am I better off buying new alkaline batteries every time they wear
> out or should I get a set (or two) or rechargeable batteries?

Depends entirely on how you use the camera and how conscientious you
are about charging your batteries.

A set of alkalines can sit around for months without losing much
charge, but do the same with NiMH batteries and you'll find them
dead.

On the other hand, if you use the camera a lot, and/or find yourself
away from a source of new alkalines, rechargeables can be great, so
long as you can recharge them and remember to.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert.RemoveThis@iphouse.com
 >> Stay informed about: Batteries 

On 20 Jun 2007 17:52:03 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert.DeleteThis@iphouse.com>
wrote:

>a@a.com (Ed) wrote in news:vPGdnYK_f82d9eTbnZ2dnUVZ_tCtnZ2d@rcn.net:
>
>> Am I better off buying new alkaline batteries every time they wear
>> out or should I get a set (or two) or rechargeable batteries?
>
>Depends entirely on how you use the camera and how conscientious you
>are about charging your batteries.
>
>A set of alkalines can sit around for months without losing much
>charge, but do the same with NiMH batteries and you'll find them
>dead.

Not if you you use hybrid NiMH batteries you won't.

Hybrids like Sanyo Eneloop or Uniross Hybrio last months,
maybe years, without losing all their charge. They're even
charged when you get them; you get the best of both worlds -
use them like alkaline except they're rechargeable.


--
John Bean
 >> Stay informed about: Batteries 

waterfoot RemoveThis @gmail.com (John Bean) wrote in
news:q3ri73p3tv86k9mksi0u3kk57tcm3hi1dt@4ax.com:

> On 20 Jun 2007 17:52:03 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert RemoveThis @iphouse.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>A set of alkalines can sit around for months without losing much
>>charge, but do the same with NiMH batteries and you'll find them
>>dead.
>
> Not if you you use hybrid NiMH batteries you won't.
>
> Hybrids like Sanyo Eneloop or Uniross Hybrio last months,
> maybe years, without losing all their charge. They're even
> charged when you get them; you get the best of both worlds -
> use them like alkaline except they're rechargeable.

How do they behave otherwise? Are they available with the same
AmpHour ratings as the ordinary sort? Can they be recharged in the
charger I have now? Operating temperatures? Cost?

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert RemoveThis @iphouse.com
 >> Stay informed about: Batteries 

Bert Hyman wrote:
> waterfoot.TakeThisOut@gmail.com (John Bean) wrote in
> news:q3ri73p3tv86k9mksi0u3kk57tcm3hi1dt@4ax.com:
>
>> On 20 Jun 2007 17:52:03 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert.TakeThisOut@iphouse.com>
>> wrote:
>>> A set of alkalines can sit around for months without losing much
>>> charge, but do the same with NiMH batteries and you'll find them
>>> dead.
>> Not if you you use hybrid NiMH batteries you won't.
>>
>> Hybrids like Sanyo Eneloop or Uniross Hybrio last months,
>> maybe years, without losing all their charge. They're even
>> charged when you get them; you get the best of both worlds -
>> use them like alkaline except they're rechargeable.
>
> How do they behave otherwise? Are they available with the same
> AmpHour ratings as the ordinary sort? Can they be recharged in the
> charger I have now? Operating temperatures? Cost?
>
In the US, Ray-O-Vac Hybrid NiMH are easier to find, and are little more
than conventional NiMH. They are rated at 2100 milliamp hours, but in
use last much longer than higher rated conventionals. I have seen Kodak
batteries that seem to use the same technology, but I haven't tried them
as my two sets of Ray-O-Vacs are more than sufficient for my needs. I
use a cheap charger of the famous "MADE IN CHINA" brand that came with
some other batteries and it has worked just fine with them.
Allen
 >> Stay informed about: Batteries 

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:57:33 +0000, Bert Hyman wrote:

> waterfoot.RemoveThis@gmail.com (John Bean) wrote in
> news:q3ri73p3tv86k9mksi0u3kk57tcm3hi1dt@4ax.com:
>
>> On 20 Jun 2007 17:52:03 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert.RemoveThis@iphouse.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>A set of alkalines can sit around for months without losing much
>>>charge, but do the same with NiMH batteries and you'll find them
>>>dead.
>>
>> Not if you you use hybrid NiMH batteries you won't.
>>
>> Hybrids like Sanyo Eneloop or Uniross Hybrio last months,
>> maybe years, without losing all their charge. They're even
>> charged when you get them; you get the best of both worlds -
>> use them like alkaline except they're rechargeable.
>
> How do they behave otherwise? Are they available with the same
> AmpHour ratings as the ordinary sort? Can they be recharged in the
> charger I have now? Operating temperatures? Cost?

1) they are designed to not loose charge when sitting idle.
2) no
3) yes
4) similar
5) more
 >> Stay informed about: Batteries 

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:32:05 -0000, Luttrell wrote:

> you want the Lithium Energizers. 2AA lithiums will seriously last you
> at least 1 month with moderate/heavy use.

The lithium batteries are a good choice for light use, but if you
need to replace them every month, that'll get costly very fast,
which is ok if you don't mind paying $60/year for batteries.


> Don't get rechargeable because they're not worth the cost and time.
>
> These lithiums are about $10/4pk at a store, probably cheaper online
> (mind the shipping) versus $12/4pk + the $10 charger. It makes no
> sense to me. I get irritated actually when I see people using those
> rechargeables over the lithiums. They think it's cheaper just to keep
> recharging them but they don't realize they don't last as long as the
> lithiums and they don't take into account that the rechargeables will
> have to be replaced after about 2-3 months depending on how much you
> charge them.

That's total nonsense. If you have to replace your rechargeables
every 2-3 months you're damaging them, either through misuse, or
your camera/device is not designed to properly use rechargeables.
Treated right, NiMH batteries should be good for many hundreds of
charges. Most manufacturers claim up to 1000 charge cycles. The
NiMH batteries I've been using are several years old and still going
strong. If the both you and the manufacturers are correct, by the
time the batteries died after 2 months, you'd have fully charged
them more than 15 times per day. I don't think so, even if you used
a 15 minute charger. <g>
 >> Stay informed about: Batteries 

allen.DeleteThis@nothere.net (Allen) wrote in
news:46797cfe$0$4930$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

> In the US, Ray-O-Vac Hybrid NiMH are easier to find, and are little
> more than conventional NiMH.
> ...
> I use a cheap charger of the famous "MADE IN CHINA" brand that
> came with some other batteries and it has worked just fine with them.
>

Hey! Me too!

Thanks for the info; I'll have to find some of 'em.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert.DeleteThis@iphouse.com
 >> Stay informed about: Batteries 

Bert Hyman <bert.RemoveThis@iphouse.com> wrote:
> a.RemoveThis@a.com (Ed) wrote in news:vPGdnYK_f82d9eTbnZ2dnUVZ_tCtnZ2d@rcn.net:
>
>> Am I better off buying new alkaline batteries every time they wear
>> out or should I get a set (or two) or rechargeable batteries?
>
> Depends entirely on how you use the camera and how conscientious you
> are about charging your batteries.
>
> A set of alkalines can sit around for months without losing much
> charge, but do the same with NiMH batteries and you'll find them
> dead.
>

The latest ultra-low self-discharge batteries like the Rayovac Hybrid
(2100mAh) and Sanyo Eneloop (2000mAh) will not lose their charge to the same
degree traditional NiMH rechargable batteries do. Rayovac claims 80% charge
after one year and Sanyo claims 85% charge after one year.

> On the other hand, if you use the camera a lot, and/or find yourself
> away from a source of new alkalines, rechargeables can be great, so
> long as you can recharge them and remember to.
>

Alkalines are way too expensive for digital cameras due to the poor
performance of alkaline batteries under high load. If you want disposable
batteries, consider the 1.5V AA Lithium Cells that sell for about $10 for
four.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow they may make it illegal.
 >> Stay informed about: Batteries 

Bert Hyman <bert DeleteThis @iphouse.com> wrote:
> allen DeleteThis @nothere.net (Allen) wrote in
> news:46797cfe$0$4930$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>
>> In the US, Ray-O-Vac Hybrid NiMH are easier to find, and are little
>> more than conventional NiMH.
>> ...
>> I use a cheap charger of the famous "MADE IN CHINA" brand that
>> came with some other batteries and it has worked just fine with them.
>>
>
> Hey! Me too!
>
> Thanks for the info; I'll have to find some of 'em.
>

Walmart has 4 AA Rayovac Hybrids for $8.99. You can get the Sanyo Eneloop for
$12.99 [I think] at Circuit City] or $19.99 for eight if you get them from
Amazon. The Sanyo's supposedly hold their charge for a bit longer than the
Rayovac's, but I am not so sure about that as of yet [practical testing takes
a long time with these types of batteries].

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow they may make it illegal.
 >> Stay informed about: Batteries 

Luttrell <luttrell321 RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> Don't get rechargeable because they're not worth the cost and time.
>
> These lithiums are about $10/4pk at a store, probably cheaper online
> (mind the shipping) versus $12/4pk + the $10 charger. It makes no
> sense to me. I get irritated actually when I see people using those
> rechargeables over the lithiums. They think it's cheaper just to keep
> recharging them but they don't realize they don't last as long as the
> lithiums and they don't take into account that the rechargeables will
> have to be replaced after about 2-3 months depending on how much you
> charge them.
>

Uhm .. bullshit

For one, since you recharge the NiMH batteries, the cost per use goes way
down. With the Lithiums, you only get one use; period. Second, the capacity
of NiMH batteries is similar to the Lithium batteries when fully charged [the
ultra low self discharge batteries may be a little lower], but you just keep a
second pair ready. Also, unless you damage the batteries by overcharging them
[cheap charger or too many rapid charges with a cheap charger], you will get
HUNDREDS of charges before the batteries need to be replaced. I have some
2500mAh Sanyo AAA batteries that I have had for about one and a half years and
they just came out rated at just shy of 2500mAh (ranging from 2430 to 2490).
I tested them using the break-in charge on the Maha MH-C9000!

In short, buy a decent slow charger [the one that comes with the Rayovac
Hybrids or Sanyo Eneloops is supposedly good] like the Maha MH-401FS and a
couple of sets of batteries and you will be set for a few years. I have found
that the Sanyo Eneloop batteries more consistantly approach their labeled
capacity, but the Rayovac Hybrids are very good batteries as well ... and
cheaper.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow they may make it illegal.
 >> Stay informed about: Batteries 

ray <ray.TakeThisOut@zianet.com> wrote:
>
> Li-ion rechargeables are absolutely the best, but I don't know if they are
> available in AA format. Of the NiMH batteries, the rayovac 'hybrid' and
> samsung?? enerloop claim to have solved the 'shelf life' problem. I know
> other NiMH batteries loose their charge quite rapidly while just sitting -
> these are not supposed to.
>

Each LiIon cell is 3.6V thus can't be used for AA format batteries.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse

Eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow they may make it illegal.
 >> Stay informed about: Batteries 

On 20 Jun 2007 18:57:33 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert DeleteThis @iphouse.com>
wrote:

>waterfoot@gmail.com (John Bean) wrote in
>news:q3ri73p3tv86k9mksi0u3kk57tcm3hi1dt@4ax.com:
>
>> On 20 Jun 2007 17:52:03 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert DeleteThis @iphouse.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>A set of alkalines can sit around for months without losing much
>>>charge, but do the same with NiMH batteries and you'll find them
>>>dead.
>>
>> Not if you you use hybrid NiMH batteries you won't.
>>
>> Hybrids like Sanyo Eneloop or Uniross Hybrio last months,
>> maybe years, without losing all their charge. They're even
>> charged when you get them; you get the best of both worlds -
>> use them like alkaline except they're rechargeable.
>
>How do they behave otherwise? Are they available with the same
>AmpHour ratings as the ordinary sort? Can they be recharged in the
>charger I have now? Operating temperatures? Cost?

The Hybrios I use are very good. They're rated 2100mAH but
outperform the Sanyo 2500mAH standard batteries by a lot, so
I guess the ratings are more honest than most. They are of
course still NiMH chemistry so other than their lack of
self-discharge they behave much like any other NiMH battery.

--
John Bean
 >> Stay informed about: Batteries 

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 14:16:14 -0500, Allen
<allen.DeleteThis@nothere.net> wrote:

>Bert Hyman wrote:
>> waterfoot.DeleteThis@gmail.com (John Bean) wrote in
>> news:q3ri73p3tv86k9mksi0u3kk57tcm3hi1dt@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On 20 Jun 2007 17:52:03 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert.DeleteThis@iphouse.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> A set of alkalines can sit around for months without losing much
>>>> charge, but do the same with NiMH batteries and you'll find them
>>>> dead.
>>> Not if you you use hybrid NiMH batteries you won't.
>>>
>>> Hybrids like Sanyo Eneloop or Uniross Hybrio last months,
>>> maybe years, without losing all their charge. They're even
>>> charged when you get them; you get the best of both worlds -
>>> use them like alkaline except they're rechargeable.
>>
>> How do they behave otherwise? Are they available with the same
>> AmpHour ratings as the ordinary sort? Can they be recharged in the
>> charger I have now? Operating temperatures? Cost?
>>
>In the US, Ray-O-Vac Hybrid NiMH are easier to find


I've been told (unconfirmed) that the Ray-O-Vac hybrids sold
in the US are the same batteries sold as Uniross Hybrio in
the UK. If so they're good, cheap, and come highly
recommended by me

I use a Maha MH-C401FS charger with mine, I have zero
complaints with either batteries or charger.

--
John Bean
 >> Stay informed about: Batteries