Alternatives to the Panasonic DMCFZ30S

Yes, The 10 megapixel D200 seems impressive, and the VR lenses are very
highly touted.

The D2X cost for the added features for me is WAY outta my price league.
The special body it has
has an expensive feature for holding it 90 degrees and having easy access
buttons- not necessary for my use.

I cannot justify depleting my largesse for the VR lenses or the D2X. If
there is no satisfactory camera of the DMCFZ30S's ilk, I will go Nikon,
probably the D200 kit (with the 18 to 70mm ED zoom lens). The best or only
price I have seen is $1999.99. I fear I may regret buying the D70s in a
short while.

Thanks,

Sandy


"Pete D" <no.DeleteThis@email.com> wrote in message
news:22QCf.229713$V7.159264@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

> A friend just bought a D200 with 18-200mm Nikon VR lens, just about the
last
> word unless you want a D2X.
>
> "Sandy Bloom, Ph.D." <sbloom.DeleteThis@new.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:XiPCf.43162$7S.11719@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> >I would have liked to buy the DMCFZ30S, but the noise factor at higher
> > ISO's makes me think I'll be disappointed when shooting in available
light
> > or at fast shutter speeds.. The price was right also.
> >
> > Now, I am (anxiously) considering the Nikon D70s, and, yes, even the
D200,
> > as I have many Nikon AI lenses -NOT AF lenses.
> >
> > So, my question for this august body is:
> >
> > Is it accurate to say that there is no comparable single (non
> > interchangeable) lens digital camera on the market with similar specs (8
> > megapixel count and 12x IS zoom) with much better noise control at the
> > higher ISO's than the DMCFZ30S? If this is so, I will have to consider
a
> > true DSLR as I mentioned above.
> >
> > Looking for the last word on this, if possible, I thank you in advance.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Sandy
> >
> >
> >
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Alternatives to the Panasonic DMCFZ30S 

Sandy Bloom, Ph.D. wrote:
> I would have liked to buy the DMCFZ30S, but the noise factor at higher
> ISO's makes me think I'll be disappointed when shooting in available light
> or at fast shutter speeds.. The price was right also.
>
> Now, I am (anxiously) considering the Nikon D70s, and, yes, even the D200,
> as I have many Nikon AI lenses -NOT AF lenses.
>
> So, my question for this august body is:
>
> Is it accurate to say that there is no comparable single (non
> interchangeable) lens digital camera on the market with similar specs (8
> megapixel count and 12x IS zoom) with much better noise control at the
> higher ISO's than the DMCFZ30S? If this is so, I will have to consider a
> true DSLR as I mentioned above.
>
> Looking for the last word on this, if possible, I thank you in advance.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sandy
>
>
>
Probably. The only current approaches to reduced noise at high ISO is
either noise reduction software (inadequate in my experience), or a
large sensor, which puts you into the DSLR realm. Of course you could
chill the camera to -40 and get a lot lower noise factor, but I don't
think you would find that practical.... Grin.
 >> Stay informed about: Alternatives to the Panasonic DMCFZ30S 

dj_nme DeleteThis @hotmail.com wrote:

> Is that a joke?
> Even the entry level Canon DSLR (EOS 350D) can impliment TTL metering
> when using Nikon lenses that the current Nikon offering can't!

Nikon probably did this to encourage new lens sales, though it may
instead have driven old-time Nikon users over to Canon.
 >> Stay informed about: Alternatives to the Panasonic DMCFZ30S 

SMS wrote:
> dj_nme.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Is that a joke?
> > Even the entry level Canon DSLR (EOS 350D) can impliment TTL metering
> > when using Nikon lenses that the current Nikon offering can't!
>
> Nikon probably did this to encourage new lens sales, though it may
> instead have driven old-time Nikon users over to Canon.

That would be an unfortunate effect if it realy did "drive" former
Nikon camera users in to the Canon camp.
Nikon, Pentax, Olympus and Sony (formerly Konica-Minolta) can't afford
to drive people off by not letting them use their existing lenses.
 >> Stay informed about: Alternatives to the Panasonic DMCFZ30S 

Sandy Bloom, Ph.D. wrote:
> I would have liked to buy the DMCFZ30S, but the noise factor at higher
> ISO's makes me think I'll be disappointed when shooting in available light
> or at fast shutter speeds.. The price was right also.


If you want to spend the money on a DSLR, then by all means go for it.
They are always going to be better at high ISO's.

But - I would recommend putting the noise issue into some perspective.
Firstly, you will find (if you look) that most FZ30 owners do not find
it to be a big issue. Even those who were initially put off by the
comments made in the varous reviews. The difference between 100 and
400 ISO is 2 stops. My experience is that image stabilization gets you
those 2 stops in the vast majority of cases. Check out to see what an
image stabilized set of lenses matching the FZ30's range will run you -
make sure that the glass is comparable as well. Note that the kit
lenses supplied with most DSLR's are not anywhere near the same
quality.

Noise is one aspect of image quality, The FZ30's are especially sharp
and detailed; a review online matching the FZ30 wiith the Canon 20D
found that the FZ30 matched, or even beat out, the more expensive
camera in 70% of the tests. Shoot RAW and you have plenty of control
over noise - in the relatively few cases in which you will find you
need it.

I spent years shooting Nikon pro models with prime lenses. I find that
the results I get from my FZ30 (except for a few extreme situations
that only an SLR will handle well) are equal or better.

You get what you pay for and what you are willing to lug around. I
personally am tired of carrying a bag stuffed with bodies and lenses.
Basically the camera that is best is the one you use. And I'm using my
fixed lens FZ30 a lot more than I used my SLR gear.

In summary: is the FZ30 equal to a DSLR in all cases? obviously not
Is the noise issue a major reason to not buy an FZ30? Definitely not.

Ken
 >> Stay informed about: Alternatives to the Panasonic DMCFZ30S 

Sandy Bloom, Ph.D. wrote:

> Thanks for your very thoughtful and well reasoned post. It helps to
> clarify my MAIN concern about the choice of a Nikon DSLR or the FZ30.

As DCResource wrote about the FZ-30, "The FZ30's weak point is its image
quality. On the positive side, photos were well exposed, with accurate
color and low purple fringing levels. Redeye was not a problem.
Unfortunately, noise levels are above average, especially at ISO 200 and
400."

ISO 200! This is clearly unacceptable. You'd expect a lot of noise at
higher ISOs with such a small sensor, but ISO 200 is not a high ISO speed.

The other big difference between an SLR and a P&S, is the shutter lag.
As long as you are not taking any action shots, it's not a concern, but
it's a major issue for many people.
 >> Stay informed about: Alternatives to the Panasonic DMCFZ30S 

I imagine that it was the salesperson's shop that had discontinued the
model. Like the others I can find no evidence of any discontinuation -
in fact the Panasonic website still lists the FZ20 as an active model.

If you do decide to give this camera a try - do make an effort to
purchase it from a dealer who gives you a reasonable trial period.
What works for me - or for anyone else - might not work for you. There
are people who have tried the FZ30 and not been satisfied - the case,
I'm sure, for nearly every camera on the market. In the final
analysis, it is your call. Even the camera's defenders will tell you
that it is not a strong action-photography or low light camera (I
believe that you will have to move to a DSLR in order to truly get
first class results in those areas).

For my purposes, I find it to be superb - the lens quality, the
ergonometrics, the manual features, the convenience. In the fixed lens
camera world, there seems to be two philosophies for high ISO's: (1)
apply strong noise reduction in camera and sacrifice on sharpness,
detail, etc. or (2) go easy on noise reduction and let sharpness/detail
rule. The Panasonics (and the Leicas) are in the latter class. My
personal opinion is that you can reduce noise, but you can't add
detail. The use of RAW mode adds some work to the process and is not
for the "shoot it and print it" photographer. It also takes up space
on your memory cards.

The FZ30 will cost you 1/2 to 1/4 of the equivalent range in a DSLR.
Those savings involve compromise - as I said earlier. But in its
class/price range, I think that it is one of the best deals out there -
the best period if feel and handling are important to you.

Good luck in making the right decision,
Ken
 >> Stay informed about: Alternatives to the Panasonic DMCFZ30S 

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:13:53 GMT, Sandy Bloom, Ph.D. <sbloom DeleteThis @new.rr.com> wrote:
> This morning I went to the only local store who had the FZ30 on their
> shelves. To my surprise, I could not find the display model, and the
> saleman told me that Panasonic has discontinued this camera because it
> wasn't selling very well (too big, he said). He denied that it had any
> particular problems. Have you folks heard of this discontinuation issue of
> the FZ30? Is it true? I have seen online stores selling the silver color
> model, but not the black. Any thoughts about this?

Haven't heard anything about discontinuation, there's nothing on the
various camera news sites, and it's still listed at the top of
Panasonic's product lineup. I'd guess that saleman gave you bad info.

A quick spotcheck of large electronics websites didn't have any trouble
finding the black version; I found it on the first go at
pcconnection.com, for example. The dedicated photo stores, such as B&H
(www.bhphotovideo.com) are stocked both the black and the silver.

Handy hint: If you Google search for FZ30K, you'll only get hits for
the black. FZ30S will get you the silver. I'm a little startled that
you're having trouble finding the black; all of the FZ series cameras
that I've seen in the wild, including some FZ30s, have been black.

-dms
 >> Stay informed about: Alternatives to the Panasonic DMCFZ30S 

"SMS" <scharf.steven.DeleteThis@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:43df90be$0$95970$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>


>
> ISO 200! This is clearly unacceptable. You'd expect a lot of noise at
> higher ISOs with such a small sensor, but ISO 200 is not a high ISO speed.
>
> The other big difference between an SLR and a P&S, is the shutter lag.
> As long as you are not taking any action shots, it's not a concern, but
> it's a major issue for many people.

Yes, that seems like a pretty low ISO level to have much noise. I guess
I'll have to rethink this whole deal--(sigh) I really would prefer an all
in one fixed lens camera like the Z30. Well, I'm going to take my time
deciding now.

BTW, I don't think of the Z30 and others like it as a P&S. Maybe my Sony 4
meg is in that class.

Thanks to all you folks for your pertinent responses.

Best,

Sandy
 >> Stay informed about: Alternatives to the Panasonic DMCFZ30S 

Now I am reading reviewers who complain of too much noise even at ISO 80.
(Maybe they don't know how to use this camera properly).

Since I cannot locate a dealer who has it on the shelf and will let me try
the camera out to see how it meets MY needs, that is, without a 15%
restocking fee, this otherwise excellent sounding camera will probably not
find its way into my home.

Thanks again,

Sandy




"SMS" <scharf.steven.TakeThisOut@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:43df90be$0$95970$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Sandy Bloom, Ph.D. wrote:
>
> > Thanks for your very thoughtful and well reasoned post. It helps to
> > clarify my MAIN concern about the choice of a Nikon DSLR or the FZ30.
>
> As DCResource wrote about the FZ-30, "The FZ30's weak point is its image
> quality. On the positive side, photos were well exposed, with accurate
> color and low purple fringing levels. Redeye was not a problem.
> Unfortunately, noise levels are above average, especially at ISO 200 and
> 400."
>
> ISO 200! This is clearly unacceptable. You'd expect a lot of noise at
> higher ISOs with such a small sensor, but ISO 200 is not a high ISO speed.
>
> The other big difference between an SLR and a P&S, is the shutter lag.
> As long as you are not taking any action shots, it's not a concern, but
> it's a major issue for many people.
 >> Stay informed about: Alternatives to the Panasonic DMCFZ30S 

try Amazon.com.

Robert


"Sandy Bloom, Ph.D." <sbloom DeleteThis @new.rr.com> wrote in message
news:XRqEf.46098$7S.40762@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Now I am reading reviewers who complain of too much noise even at ISO 80.
> (Maybe they don't know how to use this camera properly).
>
> Since I cannot locate a dealer who has it on the shelf and will let me try
> the camera out to see how it meets MY needs, that is, without a 15%
> restocking fee, this otherwise excellent sounding camera will probably not
> find its way into my home.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Sandy
>
>
>
>
> "SMS" <scharf.steven DeleteThis @geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:43df90be$0$95970$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>> Sandy Bloom, Ph.D. wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks for your very thoughtful and well reasoned post. It helps to
>> > clarify my MAIN concern about the choice of a Nikon DSLR or the FZ30.
>>
>> As DCResource wrote about the FZ-30, "The FZ30's weak point is its image
>> quality. On the positive side, photos were well exposed, with accurate
>> color and low purple fringing levels. Redeye was not a problem.
>> Unfortunately, noise levels are above average, especially at ISO 200 and
>> 400."
>>
>> ISO 200! This is clearly unacceptable. You'd expect a lot of noise at
>> higher ISOs with such a small sensor, but ISO 200 is not a high ISO
>> speed.
>>
>> The other big difference between an SLR and a P&S, is the shutter lag.
>> As long as you are not taking any action shots, it's not a concern, but
>> it's a major issue for many people.
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Alternatives to the Panasonic DMCFZ30S