Advice please

"Conna" wrote in message

> I'm hoping someone here can advise me on a digital camera. I have up to
> £150 to spend but I'm not sure what model to buy. I have been looking at
> the Kodak z710 7 mp model at £114.00 from Amazon what do you guys thing
> about it? I want a camera that takes video and sound too. I'm not sure
> about the memory card though as I have recently bought a 2 gig SD card but
> this one takes SD/MMC what does this mean? Will the 2 gig SD card I have
> work in it? I'm just interested in taking nice general pictures and a bit
> of video, I don't want the camera for anything in particuler although I
> will probably be using it a lot in the dark.

If you live near retailers that let you handle cameras and experiment a bit,
spend some time doing that.

I find some cameras user friendly and some not so. Canon and Nikon are
reasonable starts for your quest. Kodak might be good too ... I have no
experience with their products.

SD cards are the way to go and yours should work.

Dark? I guess you need a built-in flash? The cameras in your price range
have anemic flash. Also, if you crank up the ISO in low-light work, expect
some noise.
 >> Stay informed about: Advice please 

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:57:13 GMT, Conna wrote:

> I'm hoping someone here can advise me on a digital camera. I have up to
> £150 to spend but I'm not sure what model to buy. I have been looking at
> the Kodak z710 7 mp model at £114.00 from Amazon what do you guys thing
> about it? I want a camera that takes video and sound too. I'm not sure
> about the memory card though as I have recently bought a 2 gig SD card but
> this one takes SD/MMC what does this mean? Will the 2 gig SD card I have
> work in it? I'm just interested in taking nice general pictures and a bit
> of video, . . .

Your memory card should be compatible. The spec. means that the
camera will work with either SD cards or the older, slower, smaller
capacity MMC cards. More important is the card's speed, since for
video if the card is too slow, it will either shorten (sometimes
greatly) the maximum possible recorded lengths of videos, or cause
skipped frames. The card should be fine for still pictures, and
possibly for videos as well. Are you aware of how little recording
time you get with digital cameras? At the usual high resolution
(640x480, 30fps), you usually only get about 15 minutes per gigabyte
of memory. If this sounds like a big restriction, look for a camera
that can accept not only SD cards, but the newer SDHC cards, which
are available in 4GB and 8GB sizes. BTW, I just checked the Z710's
spec's, and it's a poor choice for video, since it doesn't support
the common high resolution mode I just mentioned. At the same
640x480 resolution instead of 30 frames per second, it only does
10.5fps, so videos will be pretty choppy. It has a more usable
20fps, but that's at a much lower 320x240 resolution.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Kodak/kodak_z710.asp

so I think you may want to consider another camera, possibly
Kodak's newer ZD710 which was announced last June. The news release
(see URL below) said that it would be available Aug. 2007, so . . .
With more black and less silver, it also is a better looking camera,
(in my opinion) than the Z710.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0706/07061201kodakmseries.asp


> I don't want the camera for anything in particuler although I will
> probably be using it a lot in the dark.

How dark is dark? Short of getting a much more expensive DSLR,
Fuji's line of compact cameras (F31fd, F40fd and F50fd) are easily
the best choices for working in low light. For an F31fd review :

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilmf31fd/
 >> Stay informed about: Advice please 

Thanks for your input guys, I do appreciate it. I have also been looking at
the Panasonic DMC FX10.


"ray" wrote in message

> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:57:13 +0000, Conna wrote:
>
>> I'm hoping someone here can advise me on a digital camera. I have up to
>> £150 to spend but I'm not sure what model to buy. I have been looking at
>> the Kodak z710 7 mp model at £114.00 from Amazon what do you guys thing
>> about it? I want a camera that takes video and sound too. I'm not sure
>> about the memory card though as I have recently bought a 2 gig SD card
>> but
>> this one takes SD/MMC what does this mean? Will the 2 gig SD card I have
>> work in it? I'm just interested in taking nice general pictures and a
>> bit
>> of video, I don't want the camera for anything in particuler although I
>> will
>> probably be using it a lot in the dark.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
> It means it will take SD or it will take MMC - your choice - either one
> works. Yes, you 2gb SD card will work fine. I don't know about UK, but in
> US, I have had universally good experience with the kodak online store -
> they have excellent prices on refurbs - a P850 cost me $250 last fall with
> printer dock.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Advice please 

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Marty Fremen wrote:

> The Panasonics are not very good for low light work as they have quite a
> bit of sensor noise in the darker areas of the image,

Just to add a couple of points:- if you were attracted by claims of ISO 800
etc for your intended low light work, then you need to know that there is
NO supercompact which is usable beyond ISO 200 (if you are discerning) or
ISO 400 (if you don't mind a fair bit of noise). The ISO 800 and 1600 modes
are rubbish, just there for marketing hype. Both of the cameras you are
looking at (Kodak and Panasonic) have equally small sensors which will
perform poorly beyond ISO 200, for serious low light work you would need a
DSLR which will have a massively bigger sensor, making ISO 800 or 1600 a
sensible proposition.

You also mentioned needing to use movie mode. Both of the cameras you are
looking at use the proprietary Quicktime format which is a real sod to use:
during playback on your PC, the supplied Quicktime software pops up a nag
screen EVERY TIME you play a movie, trying to get you to upgrade to the
paid-for version. Also it is next to impossible to edit Quicktime movies
unless (possibly) you shell out for the Quicktime Pro software. You're
better off getting a camera which saves in the standard AVI format, which
will work in any media player or video editor. Ricoh Caplio & Canon Ixus
cameras save in AVI format, I'm sure there are others.

To get much recording on a memory card, you ideally want a camera which
saves using DivX or MPEG4 (aka MP4) compression, but very few do. Most use
MJPEG which isn't very efficient, being effectively just a stream of JPEGs,
and severly limits recording time. This is true of the videos produced by
the Panasonic and probably the Kodak too - despite using Quicktime file
format they don't make use of Apple's advanced MP4 compression method such
as is used for squeezing movies onto Ipods. (Ricoh and Canon also use MPJEG
compression method in their AVIs.)

Sound quality in all these cameras can be expected to be pretty poor.
Picture quality of videos is actually surprisingly good, it's just the
questions of editability and huge file sizes which are the problem.
 >> Stay informed about: Advice please 

Marty Fremen wrote:

<heavily edited, for brevity>

> To get much recording on a memory card, you ideally want a camera which
> saves using DivX or MPEG4 (aka MP4) compression, but very few do. Most use
> MJPEG which isn't very efficient, being effectively just a stream of JPEGs,
> and severly limits recording time. This is true of the videos produced by
> the Panasonic and probably the Kodak too - despite using Quicktime file
> format they don't make use of Apple's advanced MP4 compression method such
> as is used for squeezing movies onto Ipods. (Ricoh and Canon also use MPJEG
> compression method in their AVIs.)

<edited>

Hello, Marty:

Kodak's current digicams >do< employ MPEG4.


Cordially,
John Turco
 >> Stay informed about: Advice please 

On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 21:48:02 -0500, John "Harkonnen" Turco wrote:

> Marty Fremen wrote:
>
> <heavily edited, for brevity>
>
>> To get much recording on a memory card, you ideally want a camera which
>> saves using DivX or MPEG4 (aka MP4) compression, but very few do. Most use
>> MJPEG which isn't very efficient, being effectively just a stream of JPEGs,
>> and severly limits recording time. This is true of the videos produced by
>> the Panasonic and probably the Kodak too - despite using Quicktime file
>> format they don't make use of Apple's advanced MP4 compression method such
>> as is used for squeezing movies onto Ipods. (Ricoh and Canon also use MPJEG
>> compression method in their AVIs.)
>
> Hello, Marty:
>
> Kodak's current digicams >do< employ MPEG4.

Marty can be excused, as the only Kodak cameras that ever arrived
on Arrakis were a few black market or otherwise "hot" items.
 >> Stay informed about: Advice please 

ASAAR wrote:
>
> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 21:48:02 -0500, John "Harkonnen" Turco wrote:
>
> > Marty Fremen wrote:
> >
> > <heavily edited, for brevity>
> >
> >> To get much recording on a memory card, you ideally want a camera which
> >> saves using DivX or MPEG4 (aka MP4) compression, but very few do. Most use
> >> MJPEG which isn't very efficient, being effectively just a stream of JPEGs,
> >> and severly limits recording time. This is true of the videos produced by
> >> the Panasonic and probably the Kodak too - despite using Quicktime file
> >> format they don't make use of Apple's advanced MP4 compression method such
> >> as is used for squeezing movies onto Ipods. (Ricoh and Canon also use MPJEG
> >> compression method in their AVIs.)
> >
> > Hello, Marty:
> >
> > Kodak's current digicams >do< employ MPEG4.
>
> Marty can be excused, as the only Kodak cameras that ever arrived
> on Arrakis were a few black market or otherwise "hot" items.


Hello, ASAAR:

What the hell are you talking about, Snorky? And who's this "Harkonnen"
character, eh?

Looks Finnish, which I ain't!


Cordially,
John Turco
 >> Stay informed about: Advice please 

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 00:05:22 -0500, John Turco wrote:

>> Marty can be excused, as the only Kodak cameras that ever arrived
>> on Arrakis were a few black market or otherwise "hot" items.
>
>
> Hello, ASAAR:
>
> What the hell are you talking about, Snorky?

I'll have to lend you my old copies of Analog Magazine, where
Frank Herbert's "Dune" was originally serialized. I still recall
removing the brown paper wrapper and seeing this monster of a desert
sandworm on the cover. It was a long time ago, but I think that
Herbert's story had something to do with young Paul Atreides staying
out in the Arrakis desert too long, whereupon he started having
visions of Spice Girls. It's all spelled out here very nicely :

http://www.spookybug.com/origins/dune.html


> And who's this "Harkonnen" character, eh?
>
> Looks Finnish, which I ain't!

Baron Vladimir Harkonnen who rules House Harkonnen a Finn? It's
not wise to be spied by those villains, let alone for them to
discover that you're talking about them. Stealing and selling spice
is what the Harkonnens are all about. They're also known to control
the Li-Ion black market. I was surprised to discover that Paul was
related to the Harkonnens (on his mother's side of the family).
 >> Stay informed about: Advice please 

ASAAR wrote:
>
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 00:05:22 -0500, John Turco wrote:
>
> >> Marty can be excused, as the only Kodak cameras that ever arrived
> >> on Arrakis were a few black market or otherwise "hot" items.
> >
> >
> > Hello, ASAAR:
> >
> > What the hell are you talking about, Snorky?
>
> I'll have to lend you my old copies of Analog Magazine, where
> Frank Herbert's "Dune" was originally serialized. I still recall
> removing the brown paper wrapper and seeing this monster of a desert
> sandworm on the cover. It was a long time ago, but I think that
> Herbert's story had something to do with young Paul Atreides staying
> out in the Arrakis desert too long, whereupon he started having
> visions of Spice Girls.

<edited, for brevity>

Hello, ASAAR:

Enough of these fantasies! What I want to know, is this: Who won that
"race to the end of the universe," between Superman and the Flash? <g>


Cordially,
John Turco
 >> Stay informed about: Advice please 

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:39:56 -0500, John Turco wrote:

>> I'll have to lend you my old copies of Analog Magazine, where
>> Frank Herbert's "Dune" was originally serialized. I still recall
>> removing the brown paper wrapper and seeing this monster of a desert
>> sandworm on the cover. It was a long time ago, but I think that
>> Herbert's story had something to do with young Paul Atreides staying
>> out in the Arrakis desert too long, whereupon he started having
>> visions of Spice Girls.
>
> Enough of these fantasies! What I want to know, is this: Who won that
> "race to the end of the universe," between Superman and the Flash? <g>

How am I supposed to know? They didn't take me along, and since
that dynamic duo hasn't yet returned, I doubt that I'll have an
answer within my lifetime or a googol years, whichever occurs first.
I've provided instructions to have my body reanimated if anyone or
thing returns with the race results within the next 16 millennia.
 >> Stay informed about: Advice please 

Hi John,

These are references to a science fiction novel/movie. Dune! Pretty good
series if you like science fiction. As noted, a great quote from it is "Fear
is the mind killer"

Talk to you soon.

Ron Baird
Eastman Kodak Company


"John Turco" wrote in message

> ASAAR wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 03 Sep 2007 21:48:02 -0500, John "Harkonnen" Turco wrote:
>>
>> > Marty Fremen wrote:
>> >
>> > <heavily edited, for brevity>
>> >
>> >> To get much recording on a memory card, you ideally want a camera
>> >> which
>> >> saves using DivX or MPEG4 (aka MP4) compression, but very few do. Most
>> >> use
>> >> MJPEG which isn't very efficient, being effectively just a stream of
>> >> JPEGs,
>> >> and severly limits recording time. This is true of the videos produced
>> >> by
>> >> the Panasonic and probably the Kodak too - despite using Quicktime
>> >> file
>> >> format they don't make use of Apple's advanced MP4 compression method
>> >> such
>> >> as is used for squeezing movies onto Ipods. (Ricoh and Canon also use
>> >> MPJEG
>> >> compression method in their AVIs.)
>> >
>> > Hello, Marty:
>> >
>> > Kodak's current digicams >do< employ MPEG4.
>>
>> Marty can be excused, as the only Kodak cameras that ever arrived
>> on Arrakis were a few black market or otherwise "hot" items.
>
>
> Hello, ASAAR:
>
> What the hell are you talking about, Snorky? And who's this "Harkonnen"
> character, eh?
>
> Looks Finnish, which I ain't!
>
>
> Cordially,
> John Turco
 >> Stay informed about: Advice please 

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 14:36:38 -0400, Ron Baird wrote:

> These are references to a science fiction novel/movie. Dune! Pretty good
> series if you like science fiction. As noted, a great quote from it is "Fear
> is the mind killer"

Yep, but don't blame me for bringing it up. The Fremen that
invaded the thread are responsible. Herbert was really good at
coming up with names, and a favorite was Duncan Idaho. The web
page link I previously provided shows that Dune was far more than
just science fiction, although that was its, um, foundation. (p.i.)
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