Canon A710 pr G7

"Gerald Mann" <gm11 RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:w1T%g.12882$Lv3.8317@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Being clumsy, I recently dropped my Canon SD500. Rather than having it
> repaired I intended to buy the A710 IS. However I saw the new G7 and
> wonder whether it pays to spend the extra $ for it when most of my
> pictures are in the point and shoot tradition. I have some aspirations to
> learning more about using the camera on manual. I like the A's AA
> batteries, but the G7 seems to be better for learning to be a real
> photographer. I want a compact, as I really hate a camera around my neck.
> Some comments please.

I've never used the G7 but I recently bought the A-710 IS and I can say that
I'm very, very happy with it. It has all the bells and whistles and manual
controls, plus image stabilization which I've come to love. My previous
camera was a Canon G2 (which still works but I never use it anymore).

I only have 2 gripes with the A-710 after taking well over 600 pictures on a
recent vacation. The back display tends to wash out on sunny days. I
gather that's a common problem with a lot of cameras.

And the optical viewfinder, which I use a lot, is very inaccurate. I would
estimate the viewfinder shows only about 70% of the actual picture being
taken. That makes accurate framing using the optical viewfinder difficult.
The back display is of course 100% acurate.

I bought Lithium AA batteries for it (it takes 2) and they're still going
strong after over 600 shots.

Bruce.
 >> Stay informed about: Canon A710 pr G7 

"Bruce Chastain" <bachastain.RemoveThis@XNOSPAMXsbcglobal.net> writes:
> I only have 2 gripes with the A-710 after taking well over 600 pictures on a
> recent vacation. The back display tends to wash out on sunny days. I
> gather that's a common problem with a lot of cameras.

How well does the IS work at the wider zoom settings?

> And the optical viewfinder, which I use a lot, is very inaccurate. I would
> estimate the viewfinder shows only about 70% of the actual picture

All compact P/S digicams seem to be like this.
 >> Stay informed about: Canon A710 pr G7 

"Gerald Mann" <gm11 RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:w1T%g.12882$Lv3.8317@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Being clumsy, I recently dropped my Canon SD500. Rather than having it
> repaired I intended to buy the A710 IS. However I saw the new G7 and
> wonder whether it pays to spend the extra $ for it when most of my
> pictures are in the point and shoot tradition. I have some aspirations to
> learning more about using the camera on manual. I like the A's AA
> batteries, but the G7 seems to be better for learning to be a real
> photographer. I want a compact, as I really hate a camera around my neck.
> Some comments please.
>
They are both nice cameras considering the zoom range and IS. I have not
been impressed by the low IS noise of the 10mp sensors though. It seems
great cameras are being handicapped by the "Megapixel Race". I have not seen
test shots from the 7mp A710. It has a tiny 1/2.5" sensor so I too question
the noise and optical quality from it. The A710 seems to run forever on just
two standard AA batteries, where the G7 uses a lithium-ion, so consider a
spare battery if your out in the boonies often.

Also consider the A620, if you like smooth low ISO images, a near perfect
lens but less zoom.
John
 >> Stay informed about: Canon A710 pr G7 

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:7xmz7jq3oa.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> How well does the IS work at the wider zoom settings?

Very nicely. No complaints. I was visiting a few dim museums and so was
taking lots of flashless hand-held available light pictures at slow shutter
speeds I wouldn't have dared try before. Most came out razor sharp despite
my shaky hands.

Here's more owner reviews:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/read_opinions.asp?prodkey=canon_a710is

Plan on getting a 1GB SD card at the same time. I also got the Canon
softcase that has a belt loop, so I can wear the camera conveniently.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=1&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=des...nitialS*&bhs=t&shs=psc-60

Bruce.
 >> Stay informed about: Canon A710 pr G7 

ASAAR wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:10:04 GMT, Gerald Mann wrote:
>
>> Being clumsy, I recently dropped my Canon SD500. Rather than having it
>> repaired I intended to buy the A710 IS. However I saw the new G7 and wonder
>> whether it pays to spend the extra $ for it when most of my pictures are in
>> the point and shoot tradition. I have some aspirations to learning more
>> about using the camera on manual. I like the A's AA batteries, but the G7
>> seems to be better for learning to be a real photographer. I want a
>> compact, as I really hate a camera around my neck. Some comments please.
>
> If you consider learning to take process RAW files, which can be
> beneficial when images weren't taken with the most ideal exposure
> and WB settings, then you might be better off trying to get a G6
> instead of the G7. The G6 and G7 probably have more features than
> the A710, but any of these cameras would allow you to learn to be a
> real photographer. A really good photographer would be able to take
> better pictures with the A710 IS than most amateurs would with
> better cameras having more features. That said, the G series
> cameras have better lenses and can produce higher quality images.
> While I haven't seen figures, the G series cameras probably perform
> better (such as focus quicker and more accurately, especially in dim
> light) than cameras such as the A710 that use only two AA cells.
> The A710's IS is a nice feature, but "real" photographers know that
> if you can tolerate the bulk, tripods produce better images than IS,
> so if you get an A710 and it prevents or delays your use of tripods,
> it will slow you down on the road to learning to be a real
> photographer. Maybe. A lot depends on you too.
>
A friend of mine has the G6, I have the A95. While I think the G6 is a
great camera, it's getting awfully close to the low end dslr's in both
cost and size. If I had to get another camera I think I would go the
A620/630 route, larger sensor, flip out display and uses AA's. The
longer range zooms with IS models are very attractive though. I think
basically you can't go far wrong with any of them. Just don't be like my
son, buy something then bug your father by obsessing over what you might
have got (or paid).
Dave Cohen
 >> Stay informed about: Canon A710 pr G7 

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:49:48 GMT, Dave Cohen wrote:

> A friend of mine has the G6, I have the A95. While I think the G6 is a
> great camera, it's getting awfully close to the low end dslr's in both
> cost and size. If I had to get another camera I think I would go the
> A620/630 route, larger sensor, flip out display and uses AA's. The
> longer range zooms with IS models are very attractive though. I think
> basically you can't go far wrong with any of them. Just don't be like my
> son, buy something then bug your father by obsessing over what you might
> have got (or paid).

I agree with most of this, although the size of the G6 is self
limiting, since unlike with DSLRs, G6 owners don't catch or suffer
from the results of lens fever. I'd rather have an A610/A620 than
the newer higher res. models. In my own case the Fuji S5100 has
only a 4mp sensor, and I'd be more interested in upgrading by going
the tripod / lens filter route than moving up to a camera with an
8mp or 10mp sensor. Because of this, if I upgraded the camera at
all it might be to get the S5200 with "only" a 5mp sensor, since
unlike the S5100, it's nonextending lens allows the easy use of
filters. Like the A610/A620, the S5100 gets excellent life from its
AA batteries, and from what I've read, the S5200 does even better.

BTW, what camera did your son get and what does he wish he had
bought instead? If he had gotten the other one, I wonder if he
might now have been coveting an even better camera. Such is the
life of the camera collector.
 >> Stay informed about: Canon A710 pr G7 

ASAAR wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:49:48 GMT, Dave Cohen wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine has the G6, I have the A95. While I think the G6 is a
>> great camera, it's getting awfully close to the low end dslr's in both
>> cost and size. If I had to get another camera I think I would go the
>> A620/630 route, larger sensor, flip out display and uses AA's. The
>> longer range zooms with IS models are very attractive though. I think
>> basically you can't go far wrong with any of them. Just don't be like my
>> son, buy something then bug your father by obsessing over what you might
>> have got (or paid).
>
> I agree with most of this, although the size of the G6 is self
> limiting, since unlike with DSLRs, G6 owners don't catch or suffer
> from the results of lens fever. I'd rather have an A610/A620 than
> the newer higher res. models. In my own case the Fuji S5100 has
> only a 4mp sensor, and I'd be more interested in upgrading by going
> the tripod / lens filter route than moving up to a camera with an
> 8mp or 10mp sensor. Because of this, if I upgraded the camera at
> all it might be to get the S5200 with "only" a 5mp sensor, since
> unlike the S5100, it's nonextending lens allows the easy use of
> filters. Like the A610/A620, the S5100 gets excellent life from its
> AA batteries, and from what I've read, the S5200 does even better.
>
> BTW, what camera did your son get and what does he wish he had
> bought instead? If he had gotten the other one, I wonder if he
> might now have been coveting an even better camera. Such is the
> life of the camera collector.
>

I mislead with my tongue in cheek comment. The remark was quite generic,
it could apply to anything he gets.
Dave Cohen
 >> Stay informed about: Canon A710 pr G7 

Thanks for all you advice. However I am sorry to say I disregarded most of
it when I went to a local store having a big sale. I liked the G7, which I
did buy.($50 rebate). I am like Dave's son, although much, much older. I
would always regret not buying the best compact. Although Canon will
probably have a G8 and G9 on the market before I learn to use this one. I
can then torment myself in questionning why I didn't wait, or for not buying
the A710 as most of you suggested. Canon seems to be the only compact on the
market with an optical viewer, which I wanted.
Thanks again, Gerry
 >> Stay informed about: Canon A710 pr G7 

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:43:33 -0400, ASAAR <caught.DeleteThis@22.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:49:48 GMT, Dave Cohen wrote:
>
>> A friend of mine has the G6, I have the A95. While I think the G6 is a
>> great camera, it's getting awfully close to the low end dslr's in both
>> cost and size. If I had to get another camera I think I would go the
>> A620/630 route, larger sensor, flip out display and uses AA's. The
>> longer range zooms with IS models are very attractive though. I think
>> basically you can't go far wrong with any of them. Just don't be like my
>> son, buy something then bug your father by obsessing over what you might
>> have got (or paid).
>
> I agree with most of this, although the size of the G6 is self
>limiting, since unlike with DSLRs, G6 owners don't catch or suffer
>from the results of lens fever. I'd rather have an A610/A620 than
>the newer higher res. models. In my own case the Fuji S5100 has
>only a 4mp sensor, and I'd be more interested in upgrading by going
>the tripod / lens filter route than moving up to a camera with an
>8mp or 10mp sensor. Because of this, if I upgraded the camera at
>all it might be to get the S5200 with "only" a 5mp sensor, since
>unlike the S5100, it's nonextending lens allows the easy use of
>filters. Like the A610/A620, the S5100 gets excellent life from its
>AA batteries, and from what I've read, the S5200 does even better.
>
> BTW, what camera did your son get and what does he wish he had
>bought instead? If he had gotten the other one, I wonder if he
>might now have been coveting an even better camera. Such is the
>life of the camera collector.

Dave Cohen,
I think Canon had to respond to Fuji's F10/11/30 which
offered "usable" ISO as high as (1600-F10/11 & 3200-F30) as well as
also provide a higher MP which marketing likely feels *most* people
want or expect. Fuji wisely held @ 6.3MP with a fairly large
*physical sized* sensor, with it's design & some quality in-camera
Noise Reduction, they produced a quality pocket size, low light
camera.

Not trying to rekindle the Fuji/Canon debate because I like
Canon & own a few of their cameras including the G2, A40, A60, A70,
A95, A610 & 300D & 30D DSLR. Had considered upgrading to the A630/640
for the larger 2.5" swivel LCD but was put off by the 8 & 10MP sensors
which I think are too noisy because of their sensor's *physical size*.
The A610\A620 seems to be where the Axx(x) line peaked but I hope
things will improve with their next offering in this line.

As to the Original Poster's choice/dilemma:
>"Being clumsy, I recently dropped my Canon SD500. Rather than
> having it repaired I intended to buy the A710 IS. However I saw
> the new G7 and wonder whether it pays to spend the extra $ for it
> when most of my pictures are in the point and shoot tradition."

My suggestion here is either buy the A710 IS or Fuji F30 but
always use the wrist strap. Doing so has saved more than 1 of my
Axx(x) cameras from a short life, mostly because I often prop them up
on almost anything to take long exposures in low light with the self
timer. Keeping the wrist strap on but slack has kept the camera from
a fall when I was accidentally bumped into in a crowded room & few
times when the railing I choose to place the camera was not as stable
as I thought. There always seems to be need of a good quality pocket
camera.

> I have some aspirations to learning more about using the camera
> on manual. I like the A's AA batteries, but the G7 seems to be better
> for learning to be a real photographer. I want a compact, as I really
> hate a camera around my neck. Some comments please."

For the above reason, I would stay clear of the G7 (10MP)
because I think it's too noisy & too big for what you want. If you
decide to learn more about photography an entry level DSLR would
likely be a much better choice when your ready. When that day comes
you will still want a good pocket size camera for when a DSLR is just
to big to carry around with you.

Best of luck, with whatever you select. Also keep in mind
that the *camera* does not define a "real photographer". A good
camera certainly helps 1 take a better picture but is far from a
guarantee of such. There are many people with top quality DSLR gear
who are "snap shot" photographers & there are those with very modest
cameras who take captivating pictures.

You *are* a "real photographer" if taking pictures gives you &
others pleasure. We can all improve but always enjoy where *you* are
*now*, live in the moment.

I am & will always be an amateur photographer by choice
because I don't ever want photography to feel like "work" or like I
"have to do it" when I am not in the mood to do so.

Respectfully, DHB



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
 >> Stay informed about: Canon A710 pr G7 

Gerald Mann wrote:
> Being clumsy, I recently dropped my Canon SD500. Rather than having it
> repaired I intended to buy the A710 IS. However I saw the new G7 and wonder
> whether it pays to spend the extra $ for it when most of my pictures are in
> the point and shoot tradition. I have some aspirations to learning more
> about using the camera on manual. I like the A's AA batteries, but the G7
> seems to be better for learning to be a real photographer. I want a
> compact, as I really hate a camera around my neck. Some comments please.

The construction of many of these point + shoot cameras is a
combination of metal + plastic with the cheaper cameras usually
containing mostly plastic. Check out Steves Digicams website for
comprehensive reviews of both cameras. Because of the fragility of
these light weight p+s cameras, it is essential to wear them around
your neck to prevent just the type of accident you describe. Wearing it
around your neck means it can only fall to your chest, somewhat
comforting I think. For me, the larger the physical size of a p+s
camera, the better, allowing me to comfortably hold it, giving less
camera shake, allowing me to more accurately compose pictures. Smaller,
in my view, is never better.
 >> Stay informed about: Canon A710 pr G7 

Bruce Chastain wrote:
> "Gerald Mann" <gm11.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:w1T%g.12882$Lv3.8317@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > Being clumsy, I recently dropped my Canon SD500. Rather than having it
> > repaired I intended to buy the A710 IS. However I saw the new G7 and
> > wonder whether it pays to spend the extra $ for it when most of my
> > pictures are in the point and shoot tradition. I have some aspirations to
> > learning more about using the camera on manual. I like the A's AA
> > batteries, but the G7 seems to be better for learning to be a real
> > photographer. I want a compact, as I really hate a camera around my neck.
> > Some comments please.
>
> I've never used the G7 but I recently bought the A-710 IS and I can say that
> I'm very, very happy with it. It has all the bells and whistles and manual
> controls, plus image stabilization which I've come to love. My previous
> camera was a Canon G2 (which still works but I never use it anymore).
>
> I only have 2 gripes with the A-710 after taking well over 600 pictures on a
> recent vacation. The back display tends to wash out on sunny days. I
> gather that's a common problem with a lot of cameras.
>
> And the optical viewfinder, which I use a lot, is very inaccurate. I would
> estimate the viewfinder shows only about 70% of the actual picture being
> taken. That makes accurate framing using the optical viewfinder difficult.
> The back display is of course 100% acurate.
>
> I bought Lithium AA batteries for it (it takes 2) and they're still going
> strong after over 600 shots.
>
> Bruce.

I think the problem you are having with the optical zoom is a matter of
paralax correction not accuracy. In a 35mm or dslr, what you see in the
optical viewfinder is what you get, because the optical viewfinder is
showing exactly what is coming through the lens. In a point + shoot
digital camera the optical viewfinder is physically either directly
above or to the left and above the lens, so what you see in the optical
viewfinder, especially in portraits, is not exactly what is coming
through the lens. You have to experiment with composition (eg moving
the subject off center, higher or lower in the frame) to see when the
composition is accurate. With wide angle landscape this is usually not
a problem.
 >> Stay informed about: Canon A710 pr G7 

For me, the larger the physical size of a p+s
> camera, the better, allowing me to comfortably hold it, giving less
> camera shake, allowing me to more accurately compose pictures. Smaller,
> in my view, is never better.
>
Well, that shows you're not a cyclist or a backpacker. I gave up taking my
camera along on bike rides because it was just too dang big! (Canon G2).
While backpacking, I couldn't find a place large enough to stow the
camera--and a place that I could access without taking the pack off.

Pat in TX
 >> Stay informed about: Canon A710 pr G7 

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:51:57 GMT, "Gerald Mann" <gm11.RemoveThis@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>Thanks for all you advice. However I am sorry to say I disregarded most of
>it when I went to a local store having a big sale. I liked the G7, which I
>did buy.($50 rebate). I am like Dave's son, although much, much older. I
>would always regret not buying the best compact. Although Canon will
>probably have a G8 and G9 on the market before I learn to use this one. I
>can then torment myself in questionning why I didn't wait, or for not buying
>the A710 as most of you suggested. Canon seems to be the only compact on the
>market with an optical viewer, which I wanted.
> Thanks again, Gerry
>
Gerry,
Now that you have decided & have a new camera, concentrate
on it & learn to get the most out of it, rather than having 2nd
thoughts.

Might I share a few suggestions of things that have worked
well for me with most of my P&S cameras, especially Canon? They may
be worth consideration with your new G7:

<1> Buy 2 good size memory cards (1 or 2GB).

<2> Buy a spare battery, just in case.

<3> Use the large swivel LCD as a view screen to frame picture above
your head or when you want a lower shot & want to save on back strain.

<4> Learn to use the "P" (Program) mode ASAP because it's almost the
same as AUTO mode but it let's you change a few things. In "P" mode
you can set the ISO to it's lowest, in your case ISO=80. This may
seem prohibitively low but in most cases it will do fine & will result
in lower noise in your pictures. Should you need a higher ISO, you
can quickly switch to "AUTO" & the camera will then select what it
thinks is the best ISO setting. This should also hold true for most
of my other setting suggestions.

<5> Try selecting -1/3 EV as an exposure bias & you may find the
result more appealing. Feel free to experiment here.

<6> Try setting color saturation up 1 increment to add a bit more
un-edited color richness to your images.

<7> Unless Canon has changed this on your G7, any exposure of 1.3
seconds or more will use "dark frame subtraction" noise reduction.
This is a great feature & not often used by most people. The easiest
way to use it is in "Tv" mode where you select the time & the camera
selects the aperture, Note: you will need to turn off the flash & use
a tripod or place the camera on something stationary & set the self
timer (2 seconds) works fine. You will be amazed @ how well this
cleans up a long exposures. Granted this is only an option with
subjects that don't move but this works great to capture the ambiance
of a room such as a restaurant or the like. Depending on how low the
lighting is, you may need to select a longer shutter speed. I have
done many between 5-15 seconds.

<8> Consider setting up 1 of you (custom modes) "C1" or "C2" as
follows in the link below which will set your camera with a manual
focus setting that will work well is situations where either the
camera has difficulty getting a focus lock (low lighting) or you just
want a quick shot of a fast moving child or pet @ a predicable range
of distances. Not my idea but it works & the link is to who & where I
found it 1st, so that's who deserves credit for it if you like it:

http://albert.achtung.com/cameras/A80/index7.html#SNAP

<9> Consider a lens adapter for using filters & to protect the lens
from being hit in certain situations. For protection a quality HOYA
multi coated UV filter should be fine. If you only buy 1 filter to
aid in your photography it should be a quality C-PL (circular
polorizer).

Most of these are suggestions to try as you learn more about
your camera & photography in general if that's what you want to do.

No matter what you do, enjoy yourself!

Respectfully, DHB



"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
 >> Stay informed about: Canon A710 pr G7