50mm pictures with D300

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 >> Stay informed about: 50mm pictures with D300 

On Jan 22, 10:29 am, "Kinon O'Cann" <fu....TakeThisOut@bout.it> wrote:
> "Rita Berkowitz" <ritaberk2....TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:13pa78s4h83fc1a@news.supernews.com...
>
> > Sosumi wrote:
>
> >> While I was waiting for my new zoom lens, I only had the 50mm left.
> >> So I thought about something someone said someday: take pictures
> >> without a zoomlens to learn composition.
> >> So for all you boys and girls I hauled my camera around town and
> >> tried to see....
> >> I think there's absolutely some truth in this. You do feel that you
> >> have to "create" instead of zooming.
>
> > You got it!  You did good.  I love the old 50 and it is nice to be able to
> > get the results you want by zooming with your feet.
>
> Zooming with your feet. Spoken like a true clueless imbecile.
>
> Sorry, you can change your position, but you cannot zoom, oh fattest of
> asses.

I never bothered considering the statement until now and you are
right.... it is impossible to "zoom with your feet". Lens zooming
maintains perspective, while moving closer alters the perspective. So
you while each of the two methods are useful in their own right and
will maximise the use of the pixel count (as apposed to cropping),
they will not produce the same result and it comes down to the image
that the photographer wishes to create.
 >> Stay informed about: 50mm pictures with D300 

"Rita Berkowitz" <ritaberk2008 DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:13pa78s4h83fc1a@news.supernews.com...
> Sosumi wrote:
>
>> While I was waiting for my new zoom lens, I only had the 50mm left.
>> So I thought about something someone said someday: take pictures
>> without a zoomlens to learn composition.
>> So for all you boys and girls I hauled my camera around town and
>> tried to see....
>> I think there's absolutely some truth in this. You do feel that you
>> have to "create" instead of zooming.
>
> You got it! You did good. I love the old 50 and it is nice to be able to
> get the results you want by zooming with your feet.

Zooming with your feet. Spoken like a true clueless imbecile.

Sorry, you can change your position, but you cannot zoom, oh fattest of
asses.
 >> Stay informed about: 50mm pictures with D300 

"Kinon O'Cann" <fuged.TakeThisOut@bout.it> wrote in message
news:MNalj.4076$Ev6.3566@trndny07...
>
> "Rita Berkowitz" <ritaberk2008.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:13pa78s4h83fc1a@news.supernews.com...
>> Sosumi wrote:
>>
>>> While I was waiting for my new zoom lens, I only had the 50mm left.
>>> So I thought about something someone said someday: take pictures
>>> without a zoomlens to learn composition.
>>> So for all you boys and girls I hauled my camera around town and
>>> tried to see....
>>> I think there's absolutely some truth in this. You do feel that you
>>> have to "create" instead of zooming.
>>
>> You got it! You did good. I love the old 50 and it is nice to be able
>> to get the results you want by zooming with your feet.
>
> Zooming with your feet. Spoken like a true clueless imbecile.
>
> Sorry, you can change your position, but you cannot zoom, oh fattest of
> asses.

When I read unsolicited insulence such as this, I almost think that
retroactive abortion can be justified.

Some people are just too lazy to zoom with their feet. They would rather
spend money, lots of it, and let technology create their art.

So Long,
Dudley
 >> Stay informed about: 50mm pictures with D300 

"Dudley Hanks" <hanks.dudley RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Some people are just too lazy to zoom with their feet.

People who suggest zooming with their feet should be introduced to the
nearest superhighway.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
 >> Stay informed about: 50mm pictures with D300 

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:22:12 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
<hanks.dudley.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in <orclj.35954$fj2.32481@edtnps82>:

>"Kinon O'Cann" <fuged.RemoveThis@bout.it> wrote in message
>news:MNalj.4076$Ev6.3566@trndny07...
>>
>> "Rita Berkowitz" <ritaberk2008.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:13pa78s4h83fc1a@news.supernews.com...
>>> Sosumi wrote:
>>>
>>>> While I was waiting for my new zoom lens, I only had the 50mm left.
>>>> So I thought about something someone said someday: take pictures
>>>> without a zoomlens to learn composition.
>>>> So for all you boys and girls I hauled my camera around town and
>>>> tried to see....
>>>> I think there's absolutely some truth in this. You do feel that you
>>>> have to "create" instead of zooming.
>>>
>>> You got it! You did good. I love the old 50 and it is nice to be able
>>> to get the results you want by zooming with your feet.
>>
>> Zooming with your feet. Spoken like a true clueless imbecile.
>>
>> Sorry, you can change your position, but you cannot zoom, oh fattest of
>> asses.
>
>When I read unsolicited insulence such as this, I almost think that
>retroactive abortion can be justified.
>
>Some people are just too lazy to zoom with their feet. They would rather
>spend money, lots of it, and let technology create their art.

That childish response is actually correct. Moving with your feet is
*not* the same thing as zooming (changing focal length) because it
changes *perspective*, which zooming does not. It's why a "dolly zoom"
is not the same as lens zoom alone.

--
Best regards,
John Navas
Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
 >> Stay informed about: 50mm pictures with D300 

"David J. Littleboy" <davidjl DeleteThis @gol.com> wrote in message
news:AKmdnWM7WagIxQjanZ2dnUVZ_v6rnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "Dudley Hanks" <hanks.dudley DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Some people are just too lazy to zoom with their feet.
>
> People who suggest zooming with their feet should be introduced to the
> nearest superhighway.
>
> David J. Littleboy
> Tokyo, Japan
>
Some people are just too dependant on a technilogical crutch.

Take Care,
Dudley
Beauty isn't always in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes, it can be found
in the mind as well.
 >> Stay informed about: 50mm pictures with D300 

"John Navas" <spamfilter1 RemoveThis @navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news:9klap3dc7u46hvf7tm1m4u3gdpce1hst7n@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 02:22:12 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
> <hanks.dudley RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in <orclj.35954$fj2.32481@edtnps82>:
>
>>"Kinon O'Cann" <fuged RemoveThis @bout.it> wrote in message
>>news:MNalj.4076$Ev6.3566@trndny07...
>>>
>>> "Rita Berkowitz" <ritaberk2008 RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:13pa78s4h83fc1a@news.supernews.com...
>>>> Sosumi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> While I was waiting for my new zoom lens, I only had the 50mm left.
>>>>> So I thought about something someone said someday: take pictures
>>>>> without a zoomlens to learn composition.
>>>>> So for all you boys and girls I hauled my camera around town and
>>>>> tried to see....
>>>>> I think there's absolutely some truth in this. You do feel that you
>>>>> have to "create" instead of zooming.
>>>>
>>>> You got it! You did good. I love the old 50 and it is nice to be able
>>>> to get the results you want by zooming with your feet.
>>>
>>> Zooming with your feet. Spoken like a true clueless imbecile.
>>>
>>> Sorry, you can change your position, but you cannot zoom, oh fattest of
>>> asses.
>>
>>When I read unsolicited insulence such as this, I almost think that
>>retroactive abortion can be justified.
>>
>>Some people are just too lazy to zoom with their feet. They would rather
>>spend money, lots of it, and let technology create their art.
>
> That childish response is actually correct. Moving with your feet is
> *not* the same thing as zooming (changing focal length) because it
> changes *perspective*, which zooming does not. It's why a "dolly zoom"
> is not the same as lens zoom alone.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> John Navas
> Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)

Aw, but does every zoom lens maintain the same degree of depth of field,
perspective, etc?

I think not.

So, the only thing that is constant throughout a variety of zoom lenses is
that the area covered by the shot decreases and the objects in it become
larger.

For instance, are the effects produced by a 35mm to 80mm zoom exactly the
same as, let us say, a 100mm to 300mm zoom?

No, the shots from each would be much different, but the characteristical
magnification of the image is what is the goal.

So, why can't one "zoom" with one's feet?

Take Care,
Dudley

Beauty isn't always in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes, it can be found
in the mind as well.
 >> Stay informed about: 50mm pictures with D300 

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:07:08 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
<hanks.dudley.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in <MZdlj.36050$fj2.24929@edtnps82>:

>"David J. Littleboy" <davidjl.DeleteThis@gol.com> wrote in message
>news:AKmdnWM7WagIxQjanZ2dnUVZ_v6rnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Dudley Hanks" <hanks.dudley.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Some people are just too lazy to zoom with their feet.
>>
>> People who suggest zooming with their feet should be introduced to the
>> nearest superhighway.

>Some people are just too dependant on a technilogical crutch.

Zoom isn't a crutch -- it's a tool.

When I want long perspective, moving in isn't an option.

You do understand perspective, right?

--
Best regards,
John Navas
Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
 >> Stay informed about: 50mm pictures with D300 

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:18:00 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
<hanks.dudley.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in <Y7elj.36053$fj2.9840@edtnps82>:

>"John Navas" <spamfilter1.TakeThisOut@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
>news:9klap3dc7u46hvf7tm1m4u3gdpce1hst7n@4ax.com...

>> That childish response is actually correct. Moving with your feet is
>> *not* the same thing as zooming (changing focal length) because it
>> changes *perspective*, which zooming does not. It's why a "dolly zoom"
>> is not the same as lens zoom alone.

>Aw, but does every zoom lens maintain the same degree of depth of field,
>perspective, etc?
>
>I think not.

I'm afraid you're wrong. Zoom lenses do maintain perspective, since the
distance to the subject doesn't change. As for depth of field:

<http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/depth-of-field.htm>

Larger apertures (smaller F-stop number) and closer focal distances
produce a shallower depth of field.

....

Even though telephoto lenses appear to create a much shallower depth
of field, this is mainly because they are often used to make the
subject appear bigger when one is unable to get closer. If the
subject occupies the same fraction of the viewfinder (constant
magnification) for both a wide angle and a telephoto lens, the total
depth of field is virtually constant with focal length!

....

This exposes a limitation of the traditional DoF concept: it only
accounts for the total DoF and not its distribution around the focal
plane, even though both may contribute to the perception of
sharpness. A wide angle lens provides a more gradually fading DoF
behind the focal plane than in front, which is important for
traditional landscape photographs.

On the other hand, when standing in the same place and focusing on a
subject at the same distance, a longer focal length lens will have a
shallower depth of field (even though the pictures will show
something entirely different). This is more representative of
everyday use, but is an effect due to higher magnification, not focal
length. Longer focal lengths also appear to have a shallow depth of
field because they flatten perspective. This renders a background
much larger relative to the foreground-- even if no more detail is
resolved. Depth of field also appears shallower for SLR cameras than
for compact digital cameras, because SLR cameras require a longer
focal length to achieve the same field of view.

>So, the only thing that is constant throughout a variety of zoom lenses is
>that the area covered by the shot decreases and the objects in it become
>larger.

They all have the same performance at a given focal length and
aperature.

>For instance, are the effects produced by a 35mm to 80mm zoom exactly the
>same as, let us say, a 100mm to 300mm zoom?

Of course not -- different focal lengths.

>No, the shots from each would be much different, but the characteristical
>magnification of the image is what is the goal.

The entire composition is the goal!

>So, why can't one "zoom" with one's feet?

Because perspective changes. Compare the image taken with a 300 mm lens
to the same subject size with a 50 mm lens, and you'll find the
background is totally different! See
<http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/dof2.shtml>

--
Best regards,
John Navas
Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
 >> Stay informed about: 50mm pictures with D300 

"John Navas" <spamfilter1 DeleteThis @navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news:ulrap3d2l7pclm3h8qolm2pbrk2o988qmh@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:07:08 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
> <hanks.dudley DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in <MZdlj.36050$fj2.24929@edtnps82>:
>
>>"David J. Littleboy" <davidjl DeleteThis @gol.com> wrote in message
>>news:AKmdnWM7WagIxQjanZ2dnUVZ_v6rnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Dudley Hanks" <hanks.dudley DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Some people are just too lazy to zoom with their feet.
>>>
>>> People who suggest zooming with their feet should be introduced to the
>>> nearest superhighway.
>
>>Some people are just too dependant on a technilogical crutch.
>
> Zoom isn't a crutch -- it's a tool.
>
> When I want long perspective, moving in isn't an option.
>
> You do understand perspective, right?
>
> --
> Best regards,
> John Navas
> Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)

Probably better than you can imagine.

But, this thread started out with the suggestion that, once and a while, we
should put the zooms away and trudge around town a bit in order to check out
the 50mm perspective, and what effects can be obtained by "zooming" with our
feet.

You do understand the original intent of the thread, right?

These posts received a resounding, unwarranted, ridicule, and I merely
attempted to support the original two posters by defending the proposal.

Given the high tech, mega-featured cameras we all have today, it's easy to
rely on the technology to capture a stunning image. But, how many of
today's point and shooters would even own a camera if they had to put in the
same degree of work that photographers routinely exerted 30, 50, or more
yeears ago?

Of course, the flip side is: if people tried the 50mm challenge and found
out that a bit of physical exertion and creative thought can yield as much
of an improvement in our current images, imagine what could happen if a
similar degree of effort and creative thought were to be employed in using
our little pocket sized cameras.

I think the exercise at least deserves a try, and the proponents of the
concept a bit of respect.

Take Care,
Dudley

Beauty isn't always found in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes, it can be
found in the mind as well.
 >> Stay informed about: 50mm pictures with D300 

"John Navas" <spamfilter1 DeleteThis @navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news:g0sap3pbac55gnmgfrvr6q60uqho2jiqg0@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:18:00 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
> <hanks.dudley DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in <Y7elj.36053$fj2.9840@edtnps82>:
>
>>"John Navas" <spamfilter1 DeleteThis @navasgroup.com> wrote in message
>>news:9klap3dc7u46hvf7tm1m4u3gdpce1hst7n@4ax.com...
>
>>> That childish response is actually correct. Moving with your feet is
>>> *not* the same thing as zooming (changing focal length) because it
>>> changes *perspective*, which zooming does not. It's why a "dolly zoom"
>>> is not the same as lens zoom alone.
>
>>Aw, but does every zoom lens maintain the same degree of depth of field,
>>perspective, etc?
>>
>>I think not.
>
> I'm afraid you're wrong. Zoom lenses do maintain perspective, since the
> distance to the subject doesn't change. As for depth of field:
>
> <http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/depth-of-field.htm>
>
> Larger apertures (smaller F-stop number) and closer focal distances
> produce a shallower depth of field.
>
> ...
>
> Even though telephoto lenses appear to create a much shallower depth
> of field, this is mainly because they are often used to make the
> subject appear bigger when one is unable to get closer. If the
> subject occupies the same fraction of the viewfinder (constant
> magnification) for both a wide angle and a telephoto lens, the total
> depth of field is virtually constant with focal length!
>
> ...
>
> This exposes a limitation of the traditional DoF concept: it only
> accounts for the total DoF and not its distribution around the focal
> plane, even though both may contribute to the perception of
> sharpness. A wide angle lens provides a more gradually fading DoF
> behind the focal plane than in front, which is important for
> traditional landscape photographs.
>
> On the other hand, when standing in the same place and focusing on a
> subject at the same distance, a longer focal length lens will have a
> shallower depth of field (even though the pictures will show
> something entirely different). This is more representative of
> everyday use, but is an effect due to higher magnification, not focal
> length. Longer focal lengths also appear to have a shallow depth of
> field because they flatten perspective. This renders a background
> much larger relative to the foreground-- even if no more detail is
> resolved. Depth of field also appears shallower for SLR cameras than
> for compact digital cameras, because SLR cameras require a longer
> focal length to achieve the same field of view.
>
>>So, the only thing that is constant throughout a variety of zoom lenses is
>>that the area covered by the shot decreases and the objects in it become
>>larger.
>
> They all have the same performance at a given focal length and
> aperature.
>
>>For instance, are the effects produced by a 35mm to 80mm zoom exactly the
>>same as, let us say, a 100mm to 300mm zoom?
>
> Of course not -- different focal lengths.
>
>>No, the shots from each would be much different, but the characteristical
>>magnification of the image is what is the goal.
>
> The entire composition is the goal!
>
>>So, why can't one "zoom" with one's feet?
>
> Because perspective changes. Compare the image taken with a 300 mm lens
> to the same subject size with a 50 mm lens, and you'll find the
> background is totally different! See
> <http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/dof2.shtml>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> John Navas
> Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)

But, you are missing my point.

You admitted, above, that the effects of a small zoom are not the same as
the effects produced by a bigger zoom because "they don't have the same
focal length. And, this is the basis of my point.
While both lenses are different, and produce different affects, which is to
say that the depth of field and perspective of images produced with
differing zooms are different, we still refer to the process of magnifying
the effective image area as "zooming."

So, why can we not use the term when refering to the magnification of an
image by physically moving closer. The depth of field and perspective may
be different from those produced by physically changing the focal length of
a lens, but then, so are the effects of changing the focal lengths of any
two not identical "zoom" lenses.

Right?

Take Care,
Dudley

Beauty isn't always in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes, it can be found
in the mind as well.
 >> Stay informed about: 50mm pictures with D300 

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 04:42:42 GMT, "Dudley Hanks"
<hanks.dudley.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in <6velj.36054$fj2.20545@edtnps82>:

>"John Navas" <spamfilter1.DeleteThis@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
>news:ulrap3d2l7pclm3h8qolm2pbrk2o988qmh@4ax.com...

>> Zoom isn't a crutch -- it's a tool.
>> When I want long perspective, moving in isn't an option.
>> You do understand perspective, right?

>Probably better than you can imagine.
>
>But, this thread started out with the suggestion that, once and a while, we
>should put the zooms away and trudge around town a bit in order to check out
>the 50mm perspective, and what effects can be obtained by "zooming" with our
>feet.

It actually started off with a zoom not being available.

>You do understand the original intent of the thread, right?

You did read the OP, right?

--
Best regards,
John Navas
Panasonic DMC-FZ8 (and several others)
 >> Stay informed about: 50mm pictures with D300