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External
Since: Nov 04, 2007
Posts: 896
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(Msg. 61) Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:03 am
Post subject: Re: 25 MP sensor of Sony [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>photo>digital (more info?)
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Chris Malcolm <cam DeleteThis @holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>Floyd L. Davidson <floyd DeleteThis @apaflo.com> wrote:
>
>> What you *cannot* find is *anything* which will support
>> your repeated statements that bit depth does not
>> restrict the dynamic range. And until you understand why,
>> all of this is just going to continue to confuse you.
>
>It doesn't confuse me at all. You've given a number of reasons why bit
>depth has to restrict dynamic range because the current accepted
>relationships between bit depth and dynamic range can't be changed
>without making other important things a lot worse. I don't disagree
>with any of that. What I'm pointing out is that it's the optimal point
>in an engineering compromise, not a fundamental scientific
>principle. It's the difference between practical and theoretical
>possibilities.
>
>If the technology changes, the optimal compromise might change.
Chris you are extremely confused.
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd DeleteThis @apaflo.com |
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External
Since: Nov 04, 2007
Posts: 308
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(Msg. 62) Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:55 am
Post subject: Re: 25 MP sensor of Sony [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Floyd L. Davidson <floyd.RemoveThis@apaflo.com> wrote:
> What you *cannot* find is *anything* which will support
> your repeated statements that bit depth does not
> restrict the dynamic range. And until you understand why,
> all of this is just going to continue to confuse you.
It doesn't confuse me at all. You've given a number of reasons why bit
depth has to restrict dynamic range because the current accepted
relationships between bit depth and dynamic range can't be changed
without making other important things a lot worse. I don't disagree
with any of that. What I'm pointing out is that it's the optimal point
in an engineering compromise, not a fundamental scientific
principle. It's the difference between practical and theoretical
possibilities.
If the technology changes, the optimal compromise might change.
--
Chris Malcolm cam.RemoveThis@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] |
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External
Since: Nov 04, 2007
Posts: 896
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(Msg. 63) Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:25 pm
Post subject: Re: 25 MP sensor of Sony [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ilya Zakharevich <nospam-abuse.RemoveThis@ilyaz.org> wrote:
>[A complimentary Cc of this posting was NOT [per weedlist] sent to
>Floyd L. Davidson
><floyd.RemoveThis@apaflo.com>], who wrote in article <871w7s39x5.fld.RemoveThis@apaflo.com>:
>> What you *cannot* find is *anything* which will support
>> your repeated statements that bit depth does not
>> restrict the dynamic range. And until you understand why,
>> all of this is just going to continue to confuse you.
>
>Who cares whether one can find it on Internet or not? It is true.
>
>With a good enough 1-bit sensor, and the constant input signal
>dithered by large enough noise (with known characteristics), one can
>get arbitrarily high bit depth by stacking.
But you can't get past the fact that a 1 bit ADC will have
a dynamic range of 6.02 + 1.72 dB.
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd.RemoveThis@apaflo.com >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony |
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External
Since: Nov 04, 2007
Posts: 896
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(Msg. 64) Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:41 pm
Post subject: Re: 25 MP sensor of Sony [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Ilya Zakharevich <nospam-abuse.TakeThisOut@ilyaz.org> wrote:
>[A complimentary Cc of this posting was NOT [per weedlist] sent to
>Floyd L. Davidson
><floyd.TakeThisOut@apaflo.com>], who wrote in article <87prv9ydze.fld.TakeThisOut@apaflo.com>:
>> >> What you *cannot* find is *anything* which will support
>> >> your repeated statements that bit depth does not
>> >> restrict the dynamic range. And until you understand why,
>> >> all of this is just going to continue to confuse you.
>
>> >Who cares whether one can find it on Internet or not? It is true.
>
>> >With a good enough 1-bit sensor, and the constant input signal
>> >dithered by large enough noise (with known characteristics), one can
>> >get arbitrarily high bit depth by stacking.
>
>> But you can't get past the fact that a 1 bit ADC will have
>> a dynamic range of 6.02 + 1.72 dB.
>
>LOL! This depends only on your definition of dynamic range.
>
>When one can measure the signal with arbitrary precision, what you
>would think about a "dynamic range" of such a measurement?
>
>Yours,
>Ilya
>
>P.S. Let me reiterate that using dB in context of photo sensors makes
> very little sense. As you can see in this thread, it leads to
> nothing else but confusiton...
This last statement is enough to write you off, totally.
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd.TakeThisOut@apaflo.com >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony |
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External
Since: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 292
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(Msg. 65) Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:15 pm
Post subject: Re: 25 MP sensor of Sony [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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[A complimentary Cc of this posting was NOT [per weedlist] sent to
Floyd L. Davidson
<floyd.RemoveThis@apaflo.com>], who wrote in article <871w7s39x5.fld.RemoveThis@apaflo.com>:
> What you *cannot* find is *anything* which will support
> your repeated statements that bit depth does not
> restrict the dynamic range. And until you understand why,
> all of this is just going to continue to confuse you.
Who cares whether one can find it on Internet or not? It is true.
With a good enough 1-bit sensor, and the constant input signal
dithered by large enough noise (with known characteristics), one can
get arbitrarily high bit depth by stacking.
Hope this helps,
Ilya >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony |
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External
Since: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 292
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(Msg. 66) Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:11 pm
Post subject: Re: 25 MP sensor of Sony [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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[A complimentary Cc of this posting was NOT [per weedlist] sent to
Floyd L. Davidson
<floyd RemoveThis @apaflo.com>], who wrote in article <87prv9ydze.fld RemoveThis @apaflo.com>:
> >> What you *cannot* find is *anything* which will support
> >> your repeated statements that bit depth does not
> >> restrict the dynamic range. And until you understand why,
> >> all of this is just going to continue to confuse you.
> >Who cares whether one can find it on Internet or not? It is true.
> >With a good enough 1-bit sensor, and the constant input signal
> >dithered by large enough noise (with known characteristics), one can
> >get arbitrarily high bit depth by stacking.
> But you can't get past the fact that a 1 bit ADC will have
> a dynamic range of 6.02 + 1.72 dB.
LOL! This depends only on your definition of dynamic range.
When one can measure the signal with arbitrary precision, what you
would think about a "dynamic range" of such a measurement?
Yours,
Ilya
P.S. Let me reiterate that using dB in context of photo sensors makes
very little sense. As you can see in this thread, it leads to
nothing else but confusiton... >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony |
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