25 MP sensor of Sony

Alfred Molon wrote:
> http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/corporate_news/release/33192.html
>
> What lens would you need for a beast like this? Probably something
> better than a 100 Euro kit lens, right?

Forget that, how many hard drives would you need for a day's shooting?
 >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony 

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Alfred Molon wrote:
> http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/corporate_news/release/33192.html
>
> What lens would you need for a beast like this? Probably something
> better than a 100 Euro kit lens, right?

Never mind, in 10 years it'll end up in a tiny camera with an 8mm plastic
lens anyway ;] 25 Mpixels will look great on an advert.
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 >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony 

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:08:24 +0100, Alfred Molon wrote:

> http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/corporate_news/release/33192.html
>
> What lens would you need for a beast like this? Probably something
> better than a 100 Euro kit lens, right?

Since the sensor seems to be the same size as a 35mm frame, I would
assume that standard 35mm lenses should be adequate.
 >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony 

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:22:12 -0500, Cynicor wrote:

> Alfred Molon wrote:
>> http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/corporate_news/
release/33192.html
>>
>> What lens would you need for a beast like this? Probably something
>> better than a 100 Euro kit lens, right?
>
> Forget that, how many hard drives would you need for a day's shooting?

Only one, if it's large enough!
 >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony 

In article <D7CdnYZD_8MZdz3anZ2dnUVZ_uDinZ2d.TakeThisOut@speakeasy.net>,
Cynicor <j...tru.p..in.TakeThisOut@sp.eake.a.sy.net> wrote:
>Alfred Molon wrote:
>> http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/corporate_news/release/33192.html
>>
>> What lens would you need for a beast like this? Probably something
>> better than a 100 Euro kit lens, right?
>
>Forget that, how many hard drives would you need for a day's shooting?


I was looking at the 6 frames/sec capability. With 3 bytes/pixel,
that's 450M Bytes/Sec sustained transfer rate and/or a Gigabyte of RAM
in-camera to buffer a burst of two seconds.

The fact that solid-state disks are becomming affordable may be part
of solution, but I don't know what kind of cable can be designed to
conect a camera to a laptop. Wireless?






--
Al Dykes
News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising.
- Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail
 >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony 

Maybe I am wrong, but there is no substance to this press release.

They have only announced the development of the 25mp full frame sensor.
There is no physical product yet.



"Alfred Molon" <alfred_molon.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.220b05ae5ca3b9a798b93d@news.supernews.com...

> http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/corporate_news/release/33192.html
>
> What lens would you need for a beast like this? Probably something
> better than a 100 Euro kit lens, right?
 >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony 

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:22:12 -0500, Cynicor <> wrote:
> Alfred Molon wrote:
>> http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/corporate_news/release/33192.html
>>
>> What lens would you need for a beast like this? Probably something
>> better than a 100 Euro kit lens, right?
>
> Forget that, how many hard drives would you need for a day's shooting?

There was a mention somewhere that it used a 12-bit digitizer, so that's
roughly 36 megabytes per uncompressed RAW image. Figure just over 200
images per 8 gig card. With flash cards getting ever larer, and terabyte
hard drives easily available, storage shouldn't be a major issue. Not
compared to the cost of the camera, anyway.

-dms
 >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony 

In article <fnqr78$rds$1@panix3.panix.com>, Al Dykes says...

> I was looking at the 6 frames/sec capability. With 3 bytes/pixel,
> that's 450M Bytes/Sec sustained transfer rate and/or a Gigabyte of RAM
> in-camera to buffer a burst of two seconds.

More likely it's 12 or 14 bit/pixel, not 24 bit.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
 >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony 

In article <D7CdnYZD_8MZdz3anZ2dnUVZ_uDinZ2d.DeleteThis@speakeasy.net>, Cynicor
says...

> Forget that, how many hard drives would you need for a day's shooting?

Already now RAW+JPEG files of my Sony R1 have a size of 23MB. Assuming
Sony compresses (losslessly) the RAW files, RAW files should average
25MB. Not much of a difference for my current situation.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
 >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony 

In article <60c94eF1qbe81U1 RemoveThis @mid.individual.net>, ray says...

> Since the sensor seems to be the same size as a 35mm frame, I would
> assume that standard 35mm lenses should be adequate.

I have doubts about that. You'll likely need some high quality lens,
capable of corner to corner sharpness.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
 >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony 

Alfred Molon wrote:
> In article <fnqr78$rds$1@panix3.panix.com>, Al Dykes says...
>
>> I was looking at the 6 frames/sec capability. With 3 bytes/pixel,
>> that's 450M Bytes/Sec sustained transfer rate and/or a Gigabyte of RAM
>> in-camera to buffer a burst of two seconds.
>
> More likely it's 12 or 14 bit/pixel, not 24 bit.

I think you may mean 12 or 14 bits per channel, so 36 or 42 bits per pixel.

--
- Michael J. Astrauskas
 >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony 

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:42:19 +0100, Alfred Molon wrote:

> In article <60c94eF1qbe81U1.TakeThisOut@mid.individual.net>, ray says...
>
>> Since the sensor seems to be the same size as a 35mm frame, I would
>> assume that standard 35mm lenses should be adequate.
>
> I have doubts about that. You'll likely need some high quality lens,
> capable of corner to corner sharpness.

Could you explain why you'd need it more there than with 35mm film - when
the sensor is the same size?
 >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony 

Bryan Olson <fakeaddress DeleteThis @nowhere.org> wrote:
>frederick wrote:
>
>The argument that 12 bits is enough challenges the assumption:
>"presuming that the sensor is capable of recording that depth
>of data." Consider the signal that will saturate a sensor cell,
>so that more light will not increase the change. If a signal
>1/4096 as large is significantly less than the absolute noise,
>then 12 bits can cover the sensor's dynamic range.

That is true, but can be misunderstood too. What does
"absolute noise" mean? You go on to discuss "dominant
noise", which is a different beast.

>Roger M. Clark has argued that the dominant noise is "shot
>noise," which is in the light itself; even a sensor that counts
>photons perfectly would have this shot noise.

Shot noise is dominant above some given level of
illumination. It is not dominant at lower levels.
Therefore perhaps the most obvious problem with the rest
of this discussion is the assumption that shot noise in
some way relates to the "absolute noise" mentioned
above. It does not.

The "absolute noise" reference is to the noise when
there is no light (i.e., no signal). That is read
noise. It is random.

>As sensor cell
>size gets smaller, so does the limiting signal-to-noise ratio.
>The signal is proportional to the sensor-cell size, while the
>noise is proportional to the square root of the signal.
>(Technically, photon arrival is well-modeled as a "Poisson
>process".)

The noise in the high signal areas is photo noise. The
noise in low signal areas is not. That is where dynamic
range is important.

>Thus the smaller the cell size, the fewer bits needed to cover
>its dynamic range. I have not examined the numbers as well as
>has Roger, but putting out the signal from a 5.94?m sensor cell
>beyond 12 bits of precision is a bit like saying the Earth will
>be four and half billion years old next Tuesday.
>
>Capturing bright highlights and dark shadows in the same shot
>is a different issue from the bits needed to cover a cell's
>dynamic range.

If the bits needed to cover the cell's dynamic range are
not there, whatever range of bright to dark the cell can
capture is *lost*. It *is* exactly the issue. One cell
may be at it's brightest, and another cell at it's
darkest... they *both* must be encoded in the digital
signal.

>On the bright/dark range problem, Fuji's "Super
>CCD HR" is a brilliant sensor design:
>
> http://www.fujifilm.com/about/technology/super_ccd/index.html
>
>24.8 megapixels measured to 12 good bits would be astonishingly
>good. Well, technically good, on those issues. I do realize that
>the shortcomings of my own photographs have little to do with
>the fidelity of my cameras.

There is no direct relationship between megapixels and
using 12 or 14 bit ADCs, as far as technical image
quality is concerned. The same advantage for a 6 MP
camera is also afforded to a 24 MP camera.

However, *time* is an indirect cost that is significant.
If, for example, all sensor sites were to be processed
by a single channel ADC, obviously a 6 MP camera will
operate 4 times faster than a 24MP camera.

There is little doubt that until the recent camera
models sporting 14 bit ADCs the main reason there were
no 14 bit ADCs was speed, not whether there was or not
any technical quality concerns in the resulting image.
The speed problem has been solved, so we now have 14 bit
ADCs.

--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) floyd DeleteThis @apaflo.com
 >> Stay informed about: 25 MP sensor of Sony